quote:

Do your own research!!!!

I do not have to do the research and or base my position on what I read.I have the benefit of a parent who was part of the effort and yes,some of the contemporaneous notes of one of the commission members.
With that in mind, I know the role that the PNC officials played in encouraging those mobs in Christianburg,Silvertown etc.Matter of fact I know full well some of the main actors who used information and dis-information to stir up the mobs.
On the other hand I know of the valiant efforts of many blacks who risked their lives so as to rescue and provide shelter to those being attacked for just being Indian.So you can go on and spin your tale, some of us know of the events and the facts. To this day many in Linden hold their heads in shame of those dark days.
However, it instructive to note that given all that took place, that down later proved to be one of most diverse communities in Guyana.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Ireton,

quote:

Originally posted by Ireton:

quote:

Do your own research!!!!

I do not have to do the research and or base my position on what I read.I have the benefit of a parent who was part of the effort and yes,some of the contemporaneous notes of one of the commission members.

Then you know the answer!!! Does your notes have anything about the work of the Guyana Maha Sabha in assisting the 1000's of refugees?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Mitwah,

quote:

Then you know the answer!!! Does your notes have anything about the work of the Guyana Maha Sabha in assisting the 1000's of refugees?

You have your notes and I have mine.Let us leave it at that.By the way, my notes by no means absolve the PNC of primary responsibility.
That is what I suspect this is all about,and by all means tie that noose around their necks.

quote:

Originally posted by Ireton:

quote:

Then you know the answer!!! Does your notes have anything about the work of the Guyana Maha Sabha in assisting the 1000's of refugees?

You have your notes and I have mine.Let us leave it at that.By the way, my notes by no means absolve the PNC of primary responsibility.
That is what I suspect this is all about,and by all means tie that noose around their necks.

And the PPP in washing its hands off this is in essence in support of the criminals.


I am for justice not revenge. Shanti (Peace)!

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Mitwah,

quote:

I am for justice not revenge. Shanti (Peace)!

44 years later and no justice yet. When will we see justice?

quote:

Originally posted by Prince Juno:

quote:

I am for justice not revenge. Shanti (Peace)!

44 years later and no justice yet. When will we see justice?

Whatever affects one directly, affects all indirectly.

"True peace is not merely the absence of tension: it is the presence of justice." MLK Jnr.

quote:

Whatever affects one directly, affects all indirectly.

"True peace is not merely the absence of tension: it is the presence of justice." MLK Jnr.

No one is born hating another person because of the color of his skin, or his background, or his religion. People must learn to hate, and if they can learn to hate, they can be taught to love, for love comes more naturally to the human heart than its opposite.
Nelson Mandela
Long Walk to Freedom

quote:

Originally posted by Prince Juno:

quote:

I am for justice not revenge. Shanti (Peace)!

44 years later and no justice yet. When will we see justice?

If more and more can stand up and denounce the celebrations of May 26 and not participate in the flag raising ceremony., Laying of a wreath would be more symbolic.

Well at least the one thing I can always count on GNI for is for both sides to a story. Hmmm Now I wonder where is the truth...

quote:

Originally posted by Ireton:

I do not have to do the research and or base my position on what I read.I have the benefit of a parent who was part of the effort and yes,some of the contemporaneous notes of one of the commission members.

With that in mind, I know the role that the PNC officials played in encouraging those mobs in Christianburg,Silvertown etc.Matter of fact I know full well some of the main actors who used information and dis-information to stir up the mobs.

On the other hand I know of the valiant efforts of many blacks who risked their lives so as to rescue and provide shelter to those being attacked for just being Indian. So you can go on and spin your tale, some of us know of the events and the facts. To this day many in Linden hold their heads in shame of those dark days.

However, it instructive to note that given all that took place, that down later proved to be one of most diverse communities in Guyana.

Ireton:

Personally, I do appreciate your views on this matter. I, purposefully, avoided making some comments due to personal matters on what happened at Wismar/Christianburg/MacKenzie. I shall make a few, not to garner support, sympathies etc., but to shed some further light on the matter.

This is my first comment -- others will follow.

I stated last year [ 2007 ] comments regarding the efforts of numerous blacks who risked life and limbs to save Indians during that time.

I will restate it here for I am at liberties to do so with full name.

One of my godfathers -- Mr. Cleaver -- a black -- [ he has transitioned on another path of life ] a well know and respected man in the area at that time risked his life, limb and all to sane, aid Indians. Many Indians have expressed their appreciation regarding Mr. Cleaver's efforts -- not only in general discussions, but also directly to/with me.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Demerara_Guy,

The following an excerpt from discussions on GNI.

Perhaps, when a Truth Commission or other similar Panels/Commissions are set up to investigate the incidents from the 1960's -- by Mr. T's statements -- [ he posts to GNI forums ] he might be a candidate of interest to the potential Commissions.

Dem_Guy

==================

Due to attrition, these threads might not be available. Amral can verify if the threads do exist.

Pontoons arrive for Berbice River bridge

http://guyanafriends.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/860604972/m...10002141#10010002141


Reference thread – GNI – Social Section
Mr. T -- Your Lies or Truth about the Wismar Massacre

http://guyanafriends.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/167604972/m/84510776141

================================

Initial Reference thread – GNI – Political Section

Pontoons arrive for Berbice River bridge

http://guyanafriends.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/860604972/m...10002141#10010002141

quote:

Originally posted by Mr.T:

I stepped over dead bodies in Wismar in 1963 as my family fled the troubles.

quote:

Originally posted by Demerara_Guy::

Did you actually step over dead bodies?:

quote:

(a) Deaths

From the Wismar Commission Report

When one considers the number of East Indians evacuated, the large number of Africans in the area and the negligible opposition which the attackers encountered, the number of fatalities was indeed very small.

There were two East Indians who died on the 25th May, 1964. Richard Khan, aged about 18 years, died at the Mackenzie Hospital two hours after admission. He had been attending high school in Georgetown. The other, Pau1 Mirgin, who operated a tug, was married and lived with his wife and four sons in the Valley of Tears.

Gussie English* an African was shot on the 25th May, 1964. He died the same day.

On the 28th May, 1964, Isaac Bridgewater was killed. He was the father of Senator Christina Ramjattan and lived at Section C, Christianburg.

On the 27th May, 1964, Byron Wharton*, an African, died because of extensive burns suffered when he was trapped in a burning building.

Reference Source- Wismar Commission Report

quote:

Originally posted by Demerara_Guy:

To step over dead bodies – means two or more bodies.

Which of these dead bodies did you step over??


1. Richard Khan -- my first cousin.

2. Isaac Bridgewater -- one of my "god-fathers".

3. Paul Mirgin – a family friend of my parents.


A. Richard Khan was beaten to death by a mob/group of people. They were the ones who stepped over his body during their heinous actions.

B. Isaac Bridgewater was killed in his home, where he lived alone, and was discovered dead by his relatives. The persons who would have stepped over his dead body were the perpetrators.

C. Similarly, who stepped over Paul Mirgin’s dead body??

quote:

Originally posted by Mr.T:

Those are the ones you know about. Many dead people were thrown into the flames of their burning houses on Wismar hill. I don't want to go into details of what I saw, and who I saw doing things to whom. I have family still in that part of the world who still live in fear of their lives.

quote:

Originally posted by Demerara_Guy:

By your own expressions, you are casting many doubts, at least, in these areas::

1. Those Wismar Commission Report cited those deaths, while you are claiming that much more deaths have occurred during that period.

2. Perhaps are we to believe that you know much more than what were presented in the Wismar Commission report on the number of deaths during that period, plus a chronology of the events?

3. Did you actually step over dead bodies – and under what circumstances did that occur?? It would leave one to believe that, perhaps, you were intimately close to and involved with the happenings.

4. How could you be involved to such an extent to see and know first hand all that were happening to/at the various homes, as you indicated, - “dead people were thrown into the flames of their burning homes”?

5. Was there not an accounting to reconcile the number of people who were evacuated from Wismar to reflect who were actually living there – hence also families who would have reported about the relatives’ death?

6. If indeed, from what you are saying that there were more deaths that cited in the Wismar Commission report, then perhaps are one to believe that the Commission did an inadequate and sloppy evidence-gathering and report-presentation on the incidents at Wismar?


OBSERVATION:

A. There are many inconsistencies in what you are expressing about your knowledge and involvement at Wismar during May, 1964.

B. You have left the impression that you have intimate knowledge and involvement about the various acts of incidents at Wismar.

Reference thread – GNI – Social Section
Mr. T -- Your Lies or Truth about the Wismar Massacre

http://guyanafriends.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/167604972/m/84510776141

Reference thread – GNI – Political Section
Pontoons arrive for Berbice River bridge

http://guyanafriends.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/860604972/m...10002141#10010002141

As I was fast tracking my studies in High school, the now infamous politically-inspired riots of the early 1960’s were in full swing. Undoubtedly, these left on my impressionable mind memories so indelible that perhaps one explanation for their ever-reminding presence is that some events became imprinted into my gene pool of permanent recall. One such incident sometimes referred to as the “Wismar Disturbance”, or the “Wismar Massacre”—a period in May 24-26, 1964. During this ordeal, Indian people were murdered, Indian women raped, Indian-owned properties burned, and hundreds of Indians forced to flee from their homes.

Why were fellow Guianese victimized and demonized? No doubt, among Guianese one’s ethnicity defined and highlighted one’s differences!

So what does this say about the British and the demanded loyalty expected of her Guianese subjects? Was our connection with the Crown and Mother Britain fading? Despite being taxpayers and free men and women of the British Empire, are we now being abandoned? I guess that as the colony was “maturing”, Guianese were expected to solve their domestic problems—regardless of the consequences!

Shortly thereafter, Guianese were to learn that our country would be granted political independence two years thence.

And what would be that date? You may guess it by now. May 26 1966.

Who set that date? Why was that date chosen? Your guess may be as good as mine!

Forty years later at the May 2006 “Guyana Festival” in Toronto, talking about Wismar is still a taboo topic. Why? National political leadership groups have thus far remained mum on the topic. Was it because its severity was overblown in the first place, as some might have suggested? No doubt, future generations of Guyana’s sons and daughters may not know, or be able to speak and come to terms with this Wismar incident. Presumably, part of the political silence of collusion designed to promote national harmony and integration—aiming for the utopian ideal of One Country, One Nation, One Destiny?

Can we see any parallelism of the Guyana Wismar Massacre with the consequences of pre-European occupation and ethnic cleansing in India? Not on the same scale in British Guiana, perhaps! But still not very pleasant!

The hearts of reason clearly clashes with the mind of acceptance!

As I watched helplessly, Indians were increasingly kicked around. Many taking it on the right cheek would at times be forced to turn the other cheek. An eye was not for another eye. Mahatma Gandhiji once said that this tit for tat thing would make the world truly blind. And wasn’t it Lord Jesus Who saw it coming, didn’t He, when He spoke these prophetic words:

“Verily, I say to you, Do not resist one who is evil. But if any one strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.” - Roop Misir

Source

quote:

Originally posted by Mitwah:

I don't care how you see me. I know who I am. I hold my head high and I am proud of who I am.[/color]

[/QUOTE]


Yes hang your head proud and boast that you are a racist. A card carrying member of the KKK.

You ignore that blacks were victims of Indian attacks. Odeen Ishmael is a historian. He is also PPP biased and even he claims Indians attacked Africans. Eusi Kwayana in his book "There is No Guilty Race" also discusses the facxt that there were racist attacks. Do you know that in 1964 the PNC even begged for the protection of their supporters who afce d attacks by Cuban armed PYO thugs?

Most honest people will admit that whenever one race committed an act of barbarism the other race retaliated. Most honest people will say that both races were equally guilty. Only black hating racisst like you pretend that only Indians were victims and only blacks were guilty.

quote:

Originally posted by D2:
.Obviously it was not an Indian. .

1. How do you know it wasnt an Indian? Given the tit for tt violence that occurred where each act of violence instigated a revenge attack why couldnt it have been a PPP operative?

2. The boat was going to Linden. Explosives were far more easily available there than in GT therefore its reasonable to conclude that whoever put the bomb on the boat didnt intend the boat to arrive in Linden.

quote:

Originally posted by Mitwah:
The Minister of Home Affairs, Janet Jagan, openly accused the police of not taking action to prevent the racial attacks, Source

And Burnham made teh same complaints. The facts are that botb races attacked each other,and innocents parties were attacked in both instances and neither received protection from the police.

quote:

Originally posted by Mitwah:
The majority of the Africans laughed and jeered at the East Indians as blood stained and battered, raped and naked, shocked and destitute, ."[/b]

And they condoned this in revenge for various attacks on Africans, in some instances relatives, that occurred in coastal Guyana. Mostr Lindeners at that time had close ties to villages on ECD and WCBerbice, areas wheere there were attacks on blacks.

Let us continue to be one sided in our analysis projecting the "savage" black and the "angelic" Indian. Then let us continue to see our distrust for each other fester.

Or we can tell the truth that in this sordid chapter of Guyanese history elements oin BOTH races committed barbarous attacks and innocent people on both sides suffered as a result.

quote:

Originally posted by Dougan:
Well at least the one thing I can always count on GNI for is for both sides to a story. Hmmm Now I wonder where is the truth...

Both sides are telling the truth. Now only if the Indoist faction would admit this.

quote:

Originally posted by caribj:

quote:

Originally posted by D2:
.Obviously it was not an Indian. .

1. How do you know it wasnt an Indian? Given the tit for tt violence that occurred where each act of violence instigated a revenge attack why couldnt it have been a PPP operative?

2. The boat was going to Linden. Explosives were far more easily available there than in GT therefore its reasonable to conclude that whoever put the bomb on the boat didnt intend the boat to arrive in Linden.

Why is it more reasonable to conclude the latter over the former ( speaking of your 2 points) Heading to Linden does not preclude the PNCite captain from actually having dynamite on board. He merely could have been prevented by some unforeseen event from delivering his package to those who were then participating in bombings in the city. The chance of an Indian getting on board to plant a bomb is less credible since he/she would have had reason to be aboard that launch that would have been remembered. No Indian would be heading in that direction at that time.

quote:

Originally posted by caribj:

quote:

Originally posted by Mitwah:

I don't care how you see me. I know who I am. I hold my head high and I am proud of who I am.[/color]

Yes hang your head proud and boast that you are a racist. A card carrying member of the KKK.

You ignore that blacks were victims of Indian attacks. Odeen Ishmael is a historian. He is also PPP biased and even he claims Indians attacked Africans. Eusi Kwayana in his book "There is No Guilty Race" also discusses the facxt that there were racist attacks. Do you know that in 1964 the PNC even begged for the protection of their supporters who afce d attacks by Cuban armed PYO thugs?

Most honest people will admit that whenever one race committed an act of barbarism the other race retaliated. Most honest people will say that both races were equally guilty. Only black hating racisst like you pretend that only Indians were victims and only blacks were guilty.[/QUOTE]

Your personal attacks / insinuations are ignored. But I say to you take a good look in the mirror.

Show us where Indians attack the blacks in Wismar. Who were the victims of the Wismar disurbances May 24 - 26 1964?

quote:

Originally posted by caribj:

quote:

Originally posted by Mitwah:
The Minister of Home Affairs, Janet Jagan, openly accused the police of not taking action to prevent the racial attacks, Source

And Burnham made teh same complaints. The facts are that botb races attacked each other,and innocents parties were attacked in both instances and neither received protection from the police.

Where is the proof of Burnham complaints.

"The terror and violence in most of the affected areas came to a sudden end when the police in Georgetown on 9 August 1964 accidentally raided the hotel room of Emmanuel Fairbain, a PNC activist, and discovered a large collection of arms, ammunition and explosives. Fairbain was charged for being in possession of illegal weapons and explosives and was detained in prison where he died shortly after under mysterious circumstances."

Source

quote:

Originally posted by Mitwah:

Show us where Indians attack the blacks in Wismar. Who were the victims of the Wismar disurbances May 24 - 26 1964?

Attacks on West Coast Demerara, attacks on West Coast berbice. Attacks of blacks who were hired by Bookers when Guysuco went on strike, the murder of an elderly couple. A train filled with blacks was attacked by Indians who slaughtered numbers this happening I think at Windsor Forest. The debatable Sun Chapman bombing though you will say blacks did it but cant furnish a motivation given tat there is lots of explosive materials in Linden and many bauxite workers had access to it so putting it on a boat from GT made no sense.


Mitwah go and debate with learned scholars like Odeen Ishmael, Eusi Kwayana and others that all the racial attacks were blacks attacking Indians. In fcat there are some who claim that blacks lost more lives and Indians more property. Those who were alive and honest say that both groups attacked each other and both justified these attacks as revenge.