Practising Muslims will outnumber worshipping Christians in Britain within 30 years, according to research published today.

British Muslims perform their traditional prayersBy 2035, there will be about 1.96 million active Muslims in Britain, compared with 1.63 million church-going Christians, according to calculations by Christian Research, a think- tank.

The figures are published in the latest in a series of reports entitled Religious Trends.

The think-tank has warned that 4,000 churches could close by 2020 if congregations continue to shrink at current rates.

According to the most recent figures from the Church of England, regular Sunday, weekly and monthly attendance each fell by one per cent in 2006.

Fewer than a million people attend church every Sunday.

Although at the last count there were only 1.6million Muslims living in Britain – compared to 41million Christians – experts have suggested Muslims are more likely to practise their faith.

More than half of the Muslims who responded to the 2001 census said they prayed every day, compared to 6.3 per cent of Christians who attend church services each week.

Christian Research describes its aim as encouraging "change in Christian culture so that by 2010 more churches are growing".

The Church of England moved to discredit the research last night, criticising its methodology and saying the results were "flawed and dangerously misleading".

A C of E spokesman said: "These sorts of statistics, based on dubious presumptions, do no one of any faith any favours.

"Faith communities are not in competition and simplistic research like this is misleading and unhelpful."

The research does not compare like with like, according to the spokesman. The number of practising Muslims, for instance, is based on the number of people who said they were active in the 2001 census.

If the same process were applied to Christians it would give a figure of 20 million active churchgoers, according to Church House, the headquarters of the C of E.

The study used the number of adults on the Church's parish-based formal voting lists as the sole measure of its active "members".

This omitted large numbers who worship every week and are involved in their churches in other ways, according to Church House.

The Rev Lynda Barley, head of research and statistics for the Archbishops' Council, said last night: "There are more than 1.7 million people worshipping in a Church of England church or cathedral each month, a figure which is 30 per cent higher than the electoral roll figures and has remained stable since 2000.

"More are involved in fresh expressions of church and chaplaincies across the country and we have no reason to believe that this will drop significantly in the next decade.

"These statistics are incomplete and represent only a partial picture of religious trends in Britain today."


Story from Telegraph News:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/1936418/Practising-Musl...ians-by-2035%27.html

It's time for some GNIers to convert.
Where is Pink Phanter?I know he would not want to be in the minority.

yall keep dreaming ... the other day it was 2025 .. now 2035 ...lol bunch of jokers.

The Muslim misconception

Most who live here are not members of any mosque

An Islamist and a Muslim could be parallel.

"An Islamist is also a Muslim but Muslim is not an Islamist," Tarek Fatah tells me.

Sadly, many Canadians cannot distinguish between a Muslim and an Islamist.

For them, these two are synonymous, but they are not -- as is shown in Fatah's 400-plus-page book, Chasing A Mirage: The Tragic Illusion of an Islamic State, on shelves tomorrow.

Fatah, 58, founder of Muslim Canadian Congress (MCC), a secular Muslim organization -- and host of the weekly television show, The Muslim Chronicle -- has written extensively about Muslims in Canada and elsewhere. He wants to help Canadians understand how radical Muslims have given a black eye to the entire Muslim community.

"Not many Canadians know that 90% of Muslims in Canada are not associated members of any mosque or a Muslim organization and yet they don't have any access to Canadian policy makers. We moderates believe in parliamentary democracy and secularism," asserts Fatah. He claims that "those who hate Canada and hate its institutions have an open door to all three political parties."

In his book, he says that after the terrorist bombings in London in 2005, former prime minister Paul Martin arranged a hurried meeting with Muslim leaders.

To his dismay "all 19 men (invited to the meeting) were heads of mosques and imams, most in full mosque regalia, with not a single woman present."

An ordinary law-abiding Muslim "doesn't carry his his/her religion on a sleeve," says Fatah. "Canadian politicians think if you don't dress up, you are not a Muslim."

The fact that Canadian politicians don't listen to both sides, Fatah claims, amounts to "racism of lower expectations, as, in their point of view, the only good Muslim is a Muslim who wears his/her religion on a sleeve and doesn't accommodate Canada."

The MCC doesn't claim to "represent the Muslim community as we just represent our 300 odd members," says Fatah. "What we say is we resemble most Muslims. We demand strict separation of religion and state as the Koran didn't prescribe that Islam should take on a political form -- an entity that is the Islamic State.

"We respect people's religious beliefs and strongly urge Muslims to understand that public law, public policy and legislation cannot come from religious institutions. These have to come from Parliament and legislatures, and the best example of this is India ... where 12% of the population is Muslim and they thrive, but next door in Pakistan and Bangladesh -- both Islamic States -- Muslims suffer."

Fatah reminds Canadian Muslims "to understand that their future lies in models based in India, South Africa and Canada."

Members of MCC, he says, are "very complacent with the responsibility that we carry to ensure that Canadians understand most Muslims are fed up with Islamists -- whether from Iran, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan or Pakistan. These are the four experiments that are disastrous failures and only imams in mosques take inspiration from any of them."

Fatah repeatedly tells Canadian politicians "please don't be fooled by the deceptive nature of Islamic discourse as Islamists want to blackmail us into silence by accusing any one who criticizes them (of being) either racist or an apostate." He's also not soft on alleged "home grown terrorists," a group of young Muslims who were accused in June 2006 of being part of a terror cell.

In his book, Fatah argues that "Islam has been hijacked by radicals who falsely invoke the Koran (their holy scripture) and name of their prophet for their own political purpose that offends the spirit of Islam."

A troubling question to him is how money from Saudi Arabia, Iran, United Arab Emirates, etc. can be injected into the local Muslim religious institutions while being hidden from public scrutiny. He says he has repeatedly suggested to Canadian politicians of all stripes "this money can come to Canada but it has to be transparent and the best way to ensure that is it should come through is via a cheque or a credit card."

Religious institutions, are "charitable organizations" and so under their mandate, they can't be allowed to mix politics with religion.

"Islamist motive is very clear. It is written in their books that are distributed widely in Canada by a number of Islamic organizations that call for Jihad against non-Muslims," according to Fatah.

Because of his writings and comments, Fatah is constantly under threat from Islamists. He disregards such threats as proved by the release of his book.

"(An) Islamist is someone who believes in invoking Islam for a political agenda, but a Muslim on the other hand uses Islam as a moral compus for his own betterment and betterment of his family," concludes the author and broadcaster.

He's set to fearlessly stand by the side of his publisher tonight inside Atelier -- 510 King St. W. -- to release his book which denounces "the duplicity of imams who decry the West for the ills that affect Muslims."

http://www.torontosun.com/News/Canada/2008/05/14/5559216-sun.html

quote:

Originally posted by Pink Panther:
yall keep dreaming ... the other day it was 2025 .. now 2035 ...lol bunch of jokers.

Ah 10 yrs is not any much difference, in the meantime I hope you will be convinced. lol

quote:

Sadly, many Canadians cannot distinguish between a Muslim and an Islamist.

Me too. I don't know what it means...


American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source - Share This Is·lam·ism Audio Help (ĭs-lä'mĭz'əm, ĭz-, ĭs'lə-, ĭz'-) Pronunciation Key
n.
An Islamic revivalist movement, often characterized by moral conservatism, literalism, and the attempt to implement Islamic values in all spheres of life.
The religious faith, principles, or cause of Islam.

quote:

Originally posted by Terry Ishmael:

quote:

Sadly, many Canadians cannot distinguish between a Muslim and an Islamist.

Me too. I don't know what it means...


American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source - Share This Is·lam·ism Audio Help (ĭs-lä'mĭz'əm, ĭz-, ĭs'lə-, ĭz'-) Pronunciation Key
n.
An Islamic revivalist movement, often characterized by moral conservatism, literalism, and the attempt to implement Islamic values in all spheres of life.
The religious faith, principles, or cause of Islam.

you have to look at the original text in arabic to understand .... mistranslation it seems! ... lol

Are Islamist the dangerous type versus the muslims who are muderates?

quote:

Originally posted by Terry Ishmael:

quote:

Sadly, many Canadians cannot distinguish between a Muslim and an Islamist.

Me too. I don't know what it means...


American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source - Share This Is·lam·ism Audio Help (ĭs-lä'mĭz'əm, ĭz-, ĭs'lə-, ĭz'-) Pronunciation Key
n.
An Islamic revivalist movement, often characterized by moral conservatism, literalism, and the attempt to implement Islamic values in all spheres of life.
The religious faith, principles, or cause of Islam.

I think Lou Dobbs was the one to coin this phrase...ask him what he means lol

hard pill for pinky to swallow...I just came back from Dallas...2 white dudes in the Masjid..with the Texan drawl and all...just converted. One o' them had a bigger beard than the Imaam :-)

This message has been edited. Last edited by: limer,

Guys: PP has a valid point. Read Iftikhar malik's "cresecent between cross and star." ah tell alyou ras to get the book but u too damm lazy.
The idea of vast muslim numbers is often used by non-Muslims to create an image of threat. As is the idea of islam being the fastest growing religion in the US. This is not true. This is not to deny the growth by conversion and birth. But the mormons, evangelicals etc are much more in terms of numbers. True that the Muslims are committed once converted for the most part, unlike many evagnelicals..but we are not talking longevity here, we are talking numbers.
Again: read Iftikhar Malik. The man is a prof in ENgland and teaches at Bath Spa u...his english is amazingly eloquent...i am using his book in my class.

Funny thing..when a xian attempts to introduce xian values into all spheres of life, none coin the term 'christianism' to denote that...my point is that while we talk about pluralism, we fail to note the underlying bigotry and bias that still underlines this nation. Notice what happened in VA and why Hillary won...people are not ashamed to admit their color bias. And u think that they are any different with religion?
I went to a meeting last week, and some people asked me...as if I had inside info..about barack being a muslim. And then followed it up with "it really doesn't matter. We just want to know..." yeah right.

quote:

Originally posted by dara shikoh:
True that the Muslims are committed once converted for the most part, unlike many evagnelicals..but we are not talking longevity here, we are talking numbers.
.

Y'all have no choice but to be committed. Try fuh leff an is off wid yuh head. :-))

quote:

Originally posted by André:

quote:

Originally posted by dara shikoh:
True that the Muslims are committed once converted for the most part, unlike many evagnelicals..but we are not talking longevity here, we are talking numbers.
.

Y'all have no choice but to be committed. Try fuh leff an is off wid yuh head. :-))

In case u did not know, in Kuwait, women wanting a divorce from an unwilling hubby can convert to Xity. Thus far, I heard of no heads rolling. All them books written by people like Mark Gabriel and Ibn Warraq..dem bannas still got their heads...empty..but still on.

quote:

Originally posted by dara shikoh:

quote:

Originally posted by André:

quote:

Originally posted by dara shikoh:
True that the Muslims are committed once converted for the most part, unlike many evagnelicals..but we are not talking longevity here, we are talking numbers.
.

Y'all have no choice but to be committed. Try fuh leff an is off wid yuh head. :-))

In case u did not know, in Kuwait, women wanting a divorce from an unwilling hubby can convert to Xity. Thus far, I heard of no heads rolling. All them books written by people like Mark Gabriel and Ibn Warraq..dem bannas still got their heads...empty..but still on.

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/b...sbt.html#009.083.017

Volume 9, Book 83, Number 17:
Narrated 'Abdullah:

Allah's Apostle said, "The blood of a Muslim who confesses that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that I am His Apostle, cannot be shed except in three cases: In Qisas for murder, a married person who commits illegal sexual intercourse and the one who reverts from Islam (apostate) and leaves the Muslims."


http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/b...sbt.html#004.052.260

Volume 4, Book 52, Number 260:
Narrated Ikrima:

Ali burnt some people and this news reached Ibn 'Abbas, who said, "Had I been in his place I would not have burnt them, as the Prophet said, 'Don't punish (anybody) with Allah's Punishment.' No doubt, I would have killed them, for the Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.' "


http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/b...sbt.html#009.084.057

Volume 9, Book 84, Number 57:
Narrated 'Ikrima:

Some Zanadiqa (atheists) were brought to 'Ali and he burnt them. The news of this event, reached Ibn 'Abbas who said, "If I had been in his place, I would not have burnt them, as Allah's Apostle forbade it, saying, 'Do not punish anybody with Allah's punishment (fire).' I would have killed them according to the statement of Allah's Apostle, 'Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.'"


http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/b...sbt.html#009.084.058

Volume 9, Book 84, Number 58:
Narrated Abu Burda:

Abu Musa said, "I came to the Prophet along with two men (from the tribe) of Ash'ariyin, one on my right and the other on my left, while Allah's Apostle was brushing his teeth (with a Siwak), and both men asked him for some employment. The Prophet said, 'O Abu Musa (O 'Abdullah bin Qais!).' I said, 'By Him Who sent you with the Truth, these two men did not tell me what was in their hearts and I did not feel (realize) that they were seeking employment.' As if I were looking now at his Siwak being drawn to a corner under his lips, and he said, 'We never (or, we do not) appoint for our affairs anyone who seeks to be employed. But O Abu Musa! (or 'Abdullah bin Qais!) Go to Yemen.'" The Prophet then sent Mu'adh bin Jabal after him and when Mu'adh reached him, he spread out a cushion for him and requested him to get down (and sit on the cushion). Behold: There was a fettered man beside Abu Muisa. Mu'adh asked, "Who is this (man)?" Abu Muisa said, "He was a Jew and became a Muslim and then reverted back to Judaism." Then Abu Muisa requested Mu'adh to sit down but Mu'adh said, "I will not sit down till he has been killed. This is the judgment of Allah and His Apostle (for such cases) and repeated it thrice. Then Abu Musa ordered that the man be killed, and he was killed. Abu Musa added, "Then we discussed the night prayers and one of us said, 'I pray and sleep, and I hope that Allah will reward me for my sleep as well as for my prayers.'"


http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/b...sbt.html#009.089.271

Volume 9, Book 89, Number 271:
Narrated Abu Musa:

A man embraced Islam and then reverted back to Judaism. Mu'adh bin Jabal came and saw the man with Abu Musa. Mu'adh asked, "What is wrong with this (man)?" Abu Musa replied, "He embraced Islam and then reverted back to Judaism." Mu'adh said, "I will not sit down unless you kill him (as it is) the verdict of Allah and His Apostle

Cleric: Ex-Muslims Should be Reasoned With - Then Killed...

The leader of the religious Adhaalath party scholars’ council has said he advocates the death penalty for those who convert from Islam to another religion, as well as amputation of hands for certain types of theft.

In an interview with Minivan News, Sheikh Abdul Majeed Abdul Bari emphasised the need for “advice” and correct legal procedures before the death penalty is implemented, but said Shari’ah law ultimately requires the killing of those who leave Islam.

Majeed was also a member of the government’s Supreme Council of Islamic Affairs until he resigned at the start of May under the Civil Service Act, which forbids civil servants to engage in political activity.

His statement follows a media furore over a book co-authored by presidential candidate Dr Hassan Saeed, Freedom Of Religion, Apostasy And Islam, which Umar Naseer of the Islamic Democratic Party has condemned as favouring freedom of religion.

Punishments

Apostates – those who leave the Islamic religion – “must not be punished by the public,” Majeed said, and must initially be offered “advice, and the opportunity to come back to Islam again”.

If the individual concerned fails to return to Islam, he said, “correct legal procedures” must then be followed.

And he emphasises the scholarly debate over punishments for apostasy – also citing the example of the Prophet’s life, during which no apostates were punished with death. But, Majeed adds, this was arguably because converts to different religions fled to other areas.

Majeed also cites Surah 2, verse 256 of the Qur’an, which states that “there is no compulsion in religion.” And he highlights the issue of munafiq – those who pretend to have faith, but do not – who must in practice be treated as Muslims.

But despite this, he says, apostasy is one of three offences that must be punished by death, along with adultery (by those already married) and murder.

Law

Asked whether Maldivian law is currently in keeping with Shari’ah, Majeed is definite: it is not.

As an example, he cites the crime of theft. Under the current legislative system, he says, burglary, mugging – theft with an element of direct threat – and stealing via fraud are all similarly classified.

But “in Islamic Shari’ah, they are three different things,” he says. The punishment for theft, in the sense of burglary – where the victim of the theft is not present – must be “cutting the hand”, though certain other conditions also apply.

For instance, the stolen object must be “valuable”. And theft made necessary by the thief’s “hunger” is exempt.

“Conflicts in society” result from the current legal system, he believes. “There would be peace if the country was practising Islamic Shari’ah.”

But problems also result from a “lack of implementation” of current law, he says, citing the much-criticised issue of fugitive criminals. “A man is sent to jail, and the next day you see him on the street.”

Adhaalath

Majeed is not speaking on behalf of the Adhaalath party, he emphasises, though he heads its religious scholars’ council. Party questions are referred to spokesman Ahmed Shaheem Ali Said.

The Adhaalath party’s manifesto contains only a brief section about religion, which includes the provision that scholars must be able to “present their religious views freely”, and a Supreme Council of Islamic Affairs that is “protected by law”.

It also mandates a specific organisation to rule on halal (lawful) and haram (unlawful) activities.

And it specifies no non-Muslim should be allowed to have Maldivian citizenship, with Majeed adding he supports a tightening of regulations in the constitution in progress, which will see those who leave the faith losing their citizenship.

The party has six thousand members, but according to Shaheem, claims the support of at least 15,000 Maldivians. It is well-known for its strong religious platform.

http://www.minivannews.com/news/news.php?id=4462

Queen Elizabeth thinking of converting?
Remember little muslims were going to be running around Buckingham Palace if Di didn't get snuffed :-))

http://guyanafriends.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/860604972/m/57610931541

quote:

Originally posted by André:

quote:

Originally posted by dara shikoh:

quote:

Originally posted by André:

quote:

Originally posted by dara shikoh:
True that the Muslims are committed once converted for the most part, unlike many evagnelicals..but we are not talking longevity here, we are talking numbers.
.

Y'all have no choice but to be committed. Try fuh leff an is off wid yuh head. :-))

In case u did not know, in Kuwait, women wanting a divorce from an unwilling hubby can convert to Xity. Thus far, I heard of no heads rolling. All them books written by people like Mark Gabriel and Ibn Warraq..dem bannas still got their heads...empty..but still on.

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/b...sbt.html#009.083.017

Volume 9, Book 83, Number 17:
Narrated 'Abdullah:

Allah's Apostle said, "The blood of a Muslim who confesses that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that I am His Apostle, cannot be shed except in three cases: In Qisas for murder, a married person who commits illegal sexual intercourse and the one who reverts from Islam (apostate) and leaves the Muslims."


http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/b...sbt.html#004.052.260

Volume 4, Book 52, Number 260:
Narrated Ikrima:

Ali burnt some people and this news reached Ibn 'Abbas, who said, "Had I been in his place I would not have burnt them, as the Prophet said, 'Don't punish (anybody) with Allah's Punishment.' No doubt, I would have killed them, for the Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.' "


http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/b...sbt.html#009.084.057

Volume 9, Book 84, Number 57:
Narrated 'Ikrima:

Some Zanadiqa (atheists) were brought to 'Ali and he burnt them. The news of this event, reached Ibn 'Abbas who said, "If I had been in his place, I would not have burnt them, as Allah's Apostle forbade it, saying, 'Do not punish anybody with Allah's punishment (fire).' I would have killed them according to the statement of Allah's Apostle, 'Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.'"


http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/b...sbt.html#009.084.058

Volume 9, Book 84, Number 58:
Narrated Abu Burda:

Abu Musa said, "I came to the Prophet along with two men (from the tribe) of Ash'ariyin, one on my right and the other on my left, while Allah's Apostle was brushing his teeth (with a Siwak), and both men asked him for some employment. The Prophet said, 'O Abu Musa (O 'Abdullah bin Qais!).' I said, 'By Him Who sent you with the Truth, these two men did not tell me what was in their hearts and I did not feel (realize) that they were seeking employment.' As if I were looking now at his Siwak being drawn to a corner under his lips, and he said, 'We never (or, we do not) appoint for our affairs anyone who seeks to be employed. But O Abu Musa! (or 'Abdullah bin Qais!) Go to Yemen.'" The Prophet then sent Mu'adh bin Jabal after him and when Mu'adh reached him, he spread out a cushion for him and requested him to get down (and sit on the cushion). Behold: There was a fettered man beside Abu Muisa. Mu'adh asked, "Who is this (man)?" Abu Muisa said, "He was a Jew and became a Muslim and then reverted back to Judaism." Then Abu Muisa requested Mu'adh to sit down but Mu'adh said, "I will not sit down till he has been killed. This is the judgment of Allah and His Apostle (for such cases) and repeated it thrice. Then Abu Musa ordered that the man be killed, and he was killed. Abu Musa added, "Then we discussed the night prayers and one of us said, 'I pray and sleep, and I hope that Allah will reward me for my sleep as well as for my prayers.'"


http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/b...sbt.html#009.089.271

Volume 9, Book 89, Number 271:
Narrated Abu Musa:

A man embraced Islam and then reverted back to Judaism. Mu'adh bin Jabal came and saw the man with Abu Musa. Mu'adh asked, "What is wrong with this (man)?" Abu Musa replied, "He embraced Islam and then reverted back to Judaism." Mu'adh said, "I will not sit down unless you kill him (as it is) the verdict of Allah and His Apostle

R we getting into the oft repeated nonsense about hadith and quran as being separate texts again? If u r going to try to create this problem, then bring all the hadith..forget my view...on killing, then on living with christians, marriage etc...and then compare what was actually done by the church fathers, what was their view not only of those who left xity, but those whom they called heretics...that would be objectivity, would it not?

quote:

Originally posted by dara shikoh:

quote:

Originally posted by André:

quote:

Originally posted by dara shikoh:

quote:

Originally posted by André:

quote:

Originally posted by dara shikoh:
True that the Muslims are committed once converted for the most part, unlike many evagnelicals..but we are not talking longevity here, we are talking numbers.
.

Y'all have no choice but to be committed. Try fuh leff an is off wid yuh head. :-))

In case u did not know, in Kuwait, women wanting a divorce from an unwilling hubby can convert to Xity. Thus far, I heard of no heads rolling. All them books written by people like Mark Gabriel and Ibn Warraq..dem bannas still got their heads...empty..but still on.

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/b...sbt.html#009.083.017

Volume 9, Book 83, Number 17:
Narrated 'Abdullah:

Allah's Apostle said, "The blood of a Muslim who confesses that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that I am His Apostle, cannot be shed except in three cases: In Qisas for murder, a married person who commits illegal sexual intercourse and the one who reverts from Islam (apostate) and leaves the Muslims."


http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/b...sbt.html#004.052.260

Volume 4, Book 52, Number 260:
Narrated Ikrima:

Ali burnt some people and this news reached Ibn 'Abbas, who said, "Had I been in his place I would not have burnt them, as the Prophet said, 'Don't punish (anybody) with Allah's Punishment.' No doubt, I would have killed them, for the Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.' "


http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/b...sbt.html#009.084.057

Volume 9, Book 84, Number 57:
Narrated 'Ikrima:

Some Zanadiqa (atheists) were brought to 'Ali and he burnt them. The news of this event, reached Ibn 'Abbas who said, "If I had been in his place, I would not have burnt them, as Allah's Apostle forbade it, saying, 'Do not punish anybody with Allah's punishment (fire).' I would have killed them according to the statement of Allah's Apostle, 'Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.'"


http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/b...sbt.html#009.084.058

Volume 9, Book 84, Number 58:
Narrated Abu Burda:

Abu Musa said, "I came to the Prophet along with two men (from the tribe) of Ash'ariyin, one on my right and the other on my left, while Allah's Apostle was brushing his teeth (with a Siwak), and both men asked him for some employment. The Prophet said, 'O Abu Musa (O 'Abdullah bin Qais!).' I said, 'By Him Who sent you with the Truth, these two men did not tell me what was in their hearts and I did not feel (realize) that they were seeking employment.' As if I were looking now at his Siwak being drawn to a corner under his lips, and he said, 'We never (or, we do not) appoint for our affairs anyone who seeks to be employed. But O Abu Musa! (or 'Abdullah bin Qais!) Go to Yemen.'" The Prophet then sent Mu'adh bin Jabal after him and when Mu'adh reached him, he spread out a cushion for him and requested him to get down (and sit on the cushion). Behold: There was a fettered man beside Abu Muisa. Mu'adh asked, "Who is this (man)?" Abu Muisa said, "He was a Jew and became a Muslim and then reverted back to Judaism." Then Abu Muisa requested Mu'adh to sit down but Mu'adh said, "I will not sit down till he has been killed. This is the judgment of Allah and His Apostle (for such cases) and repeated it thrice. Then Abu Musa ordered that the man be killed, and he was killed. Abu Musa added, "Then we discussed the night prayers and one of us said, 'I pray and sleep, and I hope that Allah will reward me for my sleep as well as for my prayers.'"


http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/b...sbt.html#009.089.271

Volume 9, Book 89, Number 271:
Narrated Abu Musa:

A man embraced Islam and then reverted back to Judaism. Mu'adh bin Jabal came and saw the man with Abu Musa. Mu'adh asked, "What is wrong with this (man)?" Abu Musa replied, "He embraced Islam and then reverted back to Judaism." Mu'adh said, "I will not sit down unless you kill him (as it is) the verdict of Allah and His Apostle

R we getting into the oft repeated nonsense about hadith and quran as being separate texts again? If u r going to try to create this problem, then bring all the hadith..forget my view...on killing, then on living with christians, marriage etc...and then compare what was actually done by the church fathers, what was their view not only of those who left xity, but those whom they called heretics...that would be objectivity, would it not?

I did not create the problem that exists about the way the Koran and Hadiths are interpreted so don't blame me. :-)) That has been there for centuries before us and will probably be around for a while longer. Your view is but one view. Many other religious Islamic scholars recommend the death penalty for apostates based on their interpretations of the various religious texts. This is quite evident in this excerpt from the article posted above by Pink Panther.

"In an interview with Minivan News, Sheikh Abdul Majeed Abdul Bari emphasised the need for “advice” and correct legal procedures before the death penalty is implemented, but said Shari’ah law ultimately requires the killing of those who leave Islam."

True..but the majority of jurists know that it is nonsense. when last did you hear of such a sentence being actually carried out/