Unaccompanied Muslim women under 45 barred from haj

Singapore: Muslim women under the age of 45 will be barred from making the annual haj pilgrimage to Mecca unless accompanied by a close male relative starting next year, news reports said Monday in Singapore.

The Islamic Religious Council of Singapore said it would no longer appeal to Saudi Arabian authorities on behalf of women who wish to make the month-long pilgrimage unaccompanied.

"We should respect the laws they have laid down," The Straits Times quoted Minister-in-Charge of Muslim Affairs Yaacob Ibrahim as saying.


The decision was reached after two consecutive years of failed appeals, he noted.

Under the rules in place for years, female pilgrims under 45 must be accompanied by their "mahram", a close male relative such as the father of a single woman or husband of a married woman. Older Muslim women are not subject to the restriction.

Seventy women from the city-state were denied the annual pilgrimage last year after appeals to Saudi authorities failed, the report said. Another 56 applicants were unsuccessful this year.

Muslims from around the world congregate each year in Mecca.

"It is better to stop the appeals as it avoids complications with being unable to go," a council spokesman said. "We do not wish people to get disappointed at the last minute."


Singapore's predominantly Chinese population includes 14 percent who are Muslim Malays.

Soruce: IANS
http://www.news24.com/News24/World/News/0,,2-10-1462_2235987,00.html

quote:

Muslim women under the age of 45 will be barred from making the annual haj pilgrimage to Mecca unless accompanied by a close male relative starting next year,

Next year??
That's the law always.

quote:

Originally posted by Chief:

Next year??
That's the law always.

what kind of law is that?

Argy" two issues here. One, it is a nonsensical law for today IN OUR PARTS, but it did exist in the Prophet's time for good reason...
2. Today while we may not see room for it thre are two factors to consider
a. nonsensical as it might seem, it is part of the law in Saudi and they have a right to expect their laws to be followed.
b. This is saudi arabia...and unescorted women are trouble...the use of hajj as a cover for prostitutes, husband seekers etc is not far from the possibility in a region where religion is not often something of faith only, but subterfuge and deceit. NOtice most of the fakeletters about LORD JESUS and now MUHAMMAD..for benefits in the millions come from countries that traditionally send a lot of people to hajj.
c. sort of like b. ALL different nations make hajj...and you see the most civil and the most barbaric. I would not want my female relatives to be there, unless, like Blaize, they have GIselle with them. And that ain't allowed.

quote:

Originally posted by dara shikoh:
Argy" two issues here. One, it is a nonsensical law for today IN OUR PARTS, but it did exist in the Prophet's time for good reason...
2. Today while we may not see room for it thre are two factors to consider
a. nonsensical as it might seem, it is part of the law in Saudi and they have a right to expect their laws to be followed.
b. This is saudi arabia...and unescorted women are trouble...the use of hajj as a cover for prostitutes, husband seekers etc is not far from the possibility in a region where religion is not often something of faith only, but subterfuge and deceit. NOtice most of the fakeletters about LORD JESUS and now MUHAMMAD..for benefits in the millions come from countries that traditionally send a lot of people to hajj.
c. sort of like b. ALL different nations make hajj...and you see the most civil and the most barbaric. I would not want my female relatives to be there, unless, like Blaize, they have GIselle with them. And that ain't allowed.

all these laws only benefit men ... does not show equality for woman status. Pain and simple.

True. That is why our Guyanese women are to be given kudos. My momma found out, for Saudi purposes, that the leader of her delegation was some male relative. NOw at the time I was mad at her for what I perceived to be a lie..now I say congrats to her for evading a shitty law...although I would still tell her that the law is there and she had no right disobeying it. Her answer to her lord would have been that she tried but that the laws of men stopped her.

Many years ago, I went to a black church. The story in summary: black lady goes to white church. Pastor says: we don't let your kind in here. She turns and walks to the door without a word. Pastor says "you are not going to protest"?
Lady says "Why? I will say to my God that I tried to came to your house, but a group of white people stopped me." I love that story.

quote:

Originally posted by dara shikoh:
True. That is why our Guyanese women are to be given kudos. My momma found out, for Saudi purposes, that the leader of her delegation was some male relative. NOw at the time I was mad at her for what I perceived to be a lie..now I say congrats to her for evading a shitty law...although I would still tell her that the law is there and she had no right disobeying it. Her answer to her lord would have been that she tried but that the laws of men stopped her.

Your mom was a strong lady. Unfortunately, after all these yrs these laws seems to get worst.

quote:

Originally posted by dara shikoh:
Many years ago, I went to a black church. The story in summary: black lady goes to white church. Pastor says: we don't let your kind in here. She turns and walks to the door without a word. Pastor says "you are not going to protest"?
Lady says "Why? I will say to my God that I tried to came to your house, but a group of white people stopped me." I love that story.

good one dara...now tell us about the time yu went to a mandir now :):)

quote:

Her answer to her lord would have been that she tried but that the laws of men stopped her.

NO, she son is a harkathi who na wan fu tek he mudda fu Hajj. You will ansa fo she lie.:):):)

quote:

Originally posted by Abu Jihad:

quote:

Her answer to her lord would have been that she tried but that the laws of men stopped her.

NO, she son is a harkathi who na wan fu tek he mudda fu Hajj. You will ansa fo she lie.:):):)

dis is a shame yoo...dara yu pra..pra badd doste :):)

quote:

Originally posted by SuperMike:

quote:

Originally posted by dara shikoh:
Many years ago, I went to a black church. The story in summary: black lady goes to white church. Pastor says: we don't let your kind in here. She turns and walks to the door without a word. Pastor says "you are not going to protest"?
Lady says "Why? I will say to my God that I tried to came to your house, but a group of white people stopped me." I love that story.

good one dara...now tell us about the time yu went to a mandir now :):)

Only when I gun walk round the fire.

quote:

Originally posted by Abu Jihad:

quote:

Her answer to her lord would have been that she tried but that the laws of men stopped her.

NO, she son is a harkathi who na wan fu tek he mudda fu Hajj. You will ansa fo she lie.:):):)

Actually...that is a good point. And the expenses etc? The hajj is something that we should think carefully about vefore doing it..I would NOT take my mom to do it in these days.

[QUOTE. You will ansa fo she lie.:):):)[/QUOTE]
Laa yukallifullaho nafsan...
laa taziru....wizratan ukhra

Argy: at the risk of offending many Muslims I will say this..in agreement with the saudis.
Islam does NOT mandate the hajj, but makes conditions for its fulfillment that are demanding..such as security etc. IN Muhammad's time, one could expect at maximum, 10000 people to make it.
Mecca can only accomodate about 1000000 people. Now it has to put up with about twice that amount documented, and another 500000 undocumented. Muslims pride themselves on multiple hajjs...it becomes a selfish ritual when they think that for every visa one gets a second time, someone who could make it the first time is denied. And it is a madhouse. People of different cultures, mores trying to do things.
A person from an uncivilized place will want to go touch the black stone NO MATTER WHAT. An American Muslim might say..it is not mandatory, so I will give my place. But he will still be run over by people caught up in the moment. That prsents a severe problem for me. On a level of personal spirituality.
I really get upset inside when I hear people boasting...yes boasting..about how many hajjs they have made, or "this is the second time i am going."

quote:

Originally posted by Aragorn:

quote:

Originally posted by dara shikoh:
Argy" two issues here. One, it is a nonsensical law for today IN OUR PARTS, but it did exist in the Prophet's time for good reason...
2. Today while we may not see room for it thre are two factors to consider
a. nonsensical as it might seem, it is part of the law in Saudi and they have a right to expect their laws to be followed.
b. This is saudi arabia...and unescorted women are trouble...the use of hajj as a cover for prostitutes, husband seekers etc is not far from the possibility in a region where religion is not often something of faith only, but subterfuge and deceit. NOtice most of the fakeletters about LORD JESUS and now MUHAMMAD..for benefits in the millions come from countries that traditionally send a lot of people to hajj.
c. sort of like b. ALL different nations make hajj...and you see the most civil and the most barbaric. I would not want my female relatives to be there, unless, like Blaize, they have GIselle with them. And that ain't allowed.

all these laws only benefit men ... does not show equality for woman status. Pain and simple.

Actually this law of unaccompanied women benefits women. They need a protector. Saudi is a rough place and many predators sometimes pretend to be muslims and go there to commit crimes. Next thing you know, if a woman pilgrim gets raped, the whole world (led by argie) will come down on the muslims.

quote:

Originally posted by Terry Ishmael:
Actually this law of unaccompanied women benefits women. They need a protector. Saudi is a rough place and many predators sometimes pretend to be muslims and go there to commit crimes. Next thing you know, if a woman pilgrim gets raped, the whole world (led by argie) will come down on the muslims.

they dont rape 46 yr old females?

They like the young girls. If they kidnap them and sell them into slavery, they fetch a better price. (:-))

Nah..the slavery bit is not done anymore. There are enough prostitutes there, no need for kidnapping. The white girls go there, check into Riyadh marriot..and mint the $.

quote:

Originally posted by dara shikoh:
Many years ago, I went to a black church. The story in summary: black lady goes to white church. Pastor says: we don't let your kind in here. She turns and walks to the door without a word. Pastor says "you are not going to protest"?
Lady says "Why? I will say to my God that I tried to came to your house, but a group of white people stopped me." I love that story.

I read that Ghandi once went to a white british church in India and was turned out.

Ahmadinejad invited to be pilgrim

It will be Mr Ahmadinejad's third visit to Saudi Arabia, seat of the Kaaba

Iran's Mahmoud Ahmadinejad will this week become the first sitting president of the Islamic republic to perform the pilgrimage to Mecca, his office said.
It follows a formal invitation from King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia, seat of the Islamic holy places and a long-time regional rival of revolutionary Iran.

It is not clear if he has performed the Hajj before, or if past presidents have been to Mecca after leaving office.

An official said the invitation was an important event in Saudi-Iranian ties.

"It is the first time in the history of relations between Iran and Saudi Arabia that the king of this country invites a president of the Islamic republic to make the pilgrimage to Mecca," said presidential aide Ali Akbar Javanfekr.

Relations between revolutionary, Shia Iran and the conservative, Sunni monarchy of Saudi Arabia have been steadily improving since the first visit to Riyadh by an Iranian president in 1999.

Indonesians deported from Mecca

Tens of thousands of Indonesians are due to take part in the Hajj

Saudi Arabia is deporting hundreds of Indonesian migrant workers after they were caught hiding in Mecca waiting to take part in the Hajj later this month.

The 600 Indonesians, whose residency permits had expired, were discovered by undercover police in two villas rented by an illegal pilgrimage company.

They are said to have paid hundreds of dollars each to be smuggled into Mecca.

Every year about two million Muslims converge on Mecca - the holiest place in Islam - to take part in the Hajj.

The pilgrimage is one of the pillars of Islam, which every adult Muslim must undertake at least once in their life if they can afford it and are physically able.

This year's Hajj will begin on 19 December, the 8th day of the Islamic lunar month of Dhu al-Hijjah, and end five days later.

quote:

Originally posted by Sunil:
Ahmadinejad invited to be pilgrim

It will be Mr Ahmadinejad's third visit to Saudi Arabia, seat of the Kaaba

Iran's Mahmoud Ahmadinejad will this week become the first sitting president of the Islamic republic to perform the pilgrimage to Mecca, his office said.
It follows a formal invitation from King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia, seat of the Islamic holy places and a long-time regional rival of revolutionary Iran.

It is not clear if he has performed the Hajj before, or if past presidents have been to Mecca after leaving office.

An official said the invitation was an important event in Saudi-Iranian ties.

"It is the first time in the history of relations between Iran and Saudi Arabia that the king of this country invites a president of the Islamic republic to make the pilgrimage to Mecca," said presidential aide Ali Akbar Javanfekr.

Relations between revolutionary, Shia Iran and the conservative, Sunni monarchy of Saudi Arabia have been steadily improving since the first visit to Riyadh by an Iranian president in 1999.

suprise .... in 1987 the Iranis tried to conquer the kaaba. which results in more than 400 deaths.

Video

Argy: the iranians did not try to take over the kaaba. They incited a problem of some sort..and the saudis reacted in a heavy handed way.