quote:

Originally posted by khaleel:
Agreed. But who told you you have taqwa or knowledge? Don't you see that it is arrogance to claim humility and taqwa for yourself? Really...don't you guys sense how perverted your positions are? How much time have you spent trying to get personal? The companions? I respect them as MEN and WOMEN who did good things and bad things. Must I respect Muawiya? The murderer? Must I say, Ali (ra) and his progeny (ra) were hated by muawiay (ra)? Must I say that the companions of Muawaiya (ra) tried to kill the companions of ali (ra/). Does the quran not tell you jokers not to make lords out of humans?

quote:

Originally posted by limer:
Knowledge sometimes make one humble and others arogant. Clearly we see proof of this in the pages and pages of nonsense here.

Knowledge has no benefit to the human without taqwa. The tone of the posts of our resident 'scholar' exudes arogance. He makes fun of the Sahaabas (ra) and Rasulullah (saw).
See some example below...
Yet you guys continue...

quote:

Becasue when I say Muhammad I don't say salabangbangbang

quote:

...but tell me, don't you find it irritating when you are speaking to one of my coreligionists and s/he says "Hamza (raddddaaaaddaa) reported that Abu Bakr (radddaaadaa) said that he heard Omar (radaang) say that he heard the Prophet (salababan) say that...

The theme is quite similar to another resident Islam basher. How ironic.

I never claim such, my brother. In fact, It is what I strive for daily. You, however, have claimed to have studied far and wide. I would expect you to have taqwa even for the rest of us - Yet you've display (by your writings) the lack of such quite clearly. I am sorry we don't see eye to eye. May Allah (swt) guide us.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: limer,

quote:

Originally posted by Reds:
the problem is that you cannot engage in a discussion to prove him wrong bc you:

a) either dont have the knowledge
b) just dont like him
c) cant understand what he is saying to even rebutt..
d) or you know that he is correct and dont want to admit it.

.

You forgot to include e) all of the above. ;-))

I get the message. By personal insults, you hope that I will leave and you can now become the resident alim. I know, I know. I do that to people. Or you hope to isolate me by people thinking negatively about me. Problem is that wherever I go, I say what is in my heart, and yes, there are those who will hate me, and there are those who will like me. For those who hate...if it is done to make you a better person, then I am happy to be hated. To whose who love me because you think I am here to abet in your perversion if you are indeed perverted, don't like me. I have a streak in me that forces me to take on the likes of Abu J. A man who vilifies others by mention of their names, but will not identify himself. HOw brave! How appropriate a moniker for himself. ABU JIHAD. Taking a handle that today is associated with suicide homicidal maniacs, killer of children and babies, rapers of innocents. The Jihad begins with yourself my friend....make jihad against your backbiting tongue and your obviosly evil persona. Since jihad today manifests itself in suicide, why don't you go do that, while saying "Muhammad salabang siad that we should not be of this world. Muhammads companions (radabangbang) killed each other. So I am gong to kill myself and find the 72 year old virgin in heaven." I am surpsied that you have not yet insulted my mother, my father or my children. RadiAllahu anhum jamiean. my family that is.

quote:

Originally posted by Abu Jihad:

quote:

Originally posted by khaleel:
Ah great scholar! Note that the word "islam" is in brackets, not that the final phrase of the sentence is not translated as Muslims...And so Abdul Haleem who talks about Muslim and muslim, about Islam and islam (note the upper and lower case) is wrong.
I wonder..did you also read the book I suggested? I forget..you are a self made scholar. Tell me, don't you know that ALL SCHOLARS say that the Q explains itself? And that verses cannot be read on their own. When you read a book do you take a single paragraph or do you seek to have the entire text in order to fully comprehend? Brother, in order to learn, you have to realize that you don't know. Go back to the early thread and see that you just confirmed by quoting abdul haleem that there is a diff between MUSLIM and muslim. Is it that only academics see that and all else can't? I hate to think so.

quote:

Originally posted by Abu Jihad:
Now, lets look at Abdel Haleems translation of verse 84 and 85:

Say [Muhammad], 'We[Muslims] believe in God and in what has bee sent down to us and to Abraham, Ishmeal, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes. We believe in what has been given to Moses, Jesus, and the prophets from their Lord. We do not make a distinction between any of the [prophets]. It is to Him that we devote ourselves.'
If anyone seeks a religion other than [islam] complete devotion to God, it will not be accepted from him: he will be one of the losers in the Hereafter.

They were muslims weather its big M or small m.


This is exactly what I said earlier and you call me a liar.

End of discussion, you take it the way you see it and I will take it the way I see it.

i see we are digressing from the question.

was the jihadist philosophy ordained by the prohet in koran. please quote a few verses so i can deduct for myself.

quote:

Originally posted by khaleel:
I get the message. By personal insults, you hope that I will leave and you can now become the resident alim. I know, I know. I do that to people. Or you hope to isolate me by people thinking negatively about me. Problem is that wherever I go, I say what is in my heart, and yes, there are those who will hate me, and there are those who will like me. For those who hate...if it is done to make you a better person, then I am happy to be hated. To whose who love me because you think I am here to abet in your perversion if you are indeed perverted, don't like me. I have a streak in me that forces me to take on the likes of Abu J. A man who vilifies others by mention of their names, but will not identify himself. HOw brave! How appropriate a moniker for himself. ABU JIHAD. Taking a handle that today is associated with suicide homicidal maniacs, killer of children and babies, rapers of innocents. The Jihad begins with yourself my friend....make jihad against your backbiting tongue and your obviosly evil persona. Since jihad today manifests itself in suicide, why don't you go do that, while saying "Muhammad salabang siad that we should not be of this world. Muhammads companions (radabangbang) killed each other. So I am gong to kill myself and find the 72 year old virgin in heaven." I am surpsied that you have not yet insulted my mother, my father or my children. RadiAllahu anhum jamiean. my family that is.

quote:

Originally posted by Abu Jihad:

quote:

Originally posted by khaleel:
Ah great scholar! Note that the word "islam" is in brackets, not that the final phrase of the sentence is not translated as Muslims...And so Abdul Haleem who talks about Muslim and muslim, about Islam and islam (note the upper and lower case) is wrong.
I wonder..did you also read the book I suggested? I forget..you are a self made scholar. Tell me, don't you know that ALL SCHOLARS say that the Q explains itself? And that verses cannot be read on their own. When you read a book do you take a single paragraph or do you seek to have the entire text in order to fully comprehend? Brother, in order to learn, you have to realize that you don't know. Go back to the early thread and see that you just confirmed by quoting abdul haleem that there is a diff between MUSLIM and muslim. Is it that only academics see that and all else can't? I hate to think so.

quote:

Originally posted by Abu Jihad:
Now, lets look at Abdel Haleems translation of verse 84 and 85:

Say [Muhammad], 'We[Muslims] believe in God and in what has bee sent down to us and to Abraham, Ishmeal, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes. We believe in what has been given to Moses, Jesus, and the prophets from their Lord. We do not make a distinction between any of the [prophets]. It is to Him that we devote ourselves.'
If anyone seeks a religion other than [islam] complete devotion to God, it will not be accepted from him: he will be one of the losers in the Hereafter.

They were muslims weather its big M or small m.


This is exactly what I said earlier and you call me a liar.

End of discussion, you take it the way you see it and I will take it the way I see it.

Why dont you take a bit of your own advice and follow it.

quote:

Originally posted by krishna:
i see we are digressing from the question.

was the jihadist philosophy ordained by the prohet in koran. please quote a few verses so i can deduct for myself.

Krishna since we are both from the same school of Teacher Annie, I will give you some of my personal opinion and that of a scholar that I admire. I will not jump into Quran to try and answer your question since it may not be what you are looking for.

Is Islam compatible with Western Society:

Dr. Tariq Ramadan has written a wonderful book called Western Muslim and the future of Islam. Dr. Ramadan starts out by defining spirituality then he goes into the topics of Quran and Sunnha and Ijtihad etc. In the end, he does a really good job showing how Islam is compatible with western values but we need to start looking at the world from a western perspective. His approach is similar to our new resident clown but he proves elequoently how we do not have to give up any of our islamic values to come to grip with our new challenges in the West.

Is Jihadist philosophy ordained in Quran and Sunnah:

I would say that you can say "yes" or "no" depending on how you look at the world around you. If you look at it from a cave in Afganistan, yes every person is a target, but if you look at it from the perspective of a muslim living in the west then you will see it a little differeently since you know that your neighbour has the same values as you and he/she is not a bad person.

Killing of innocent people is strictly forbidden in Islam.

I suggest you give Dr. Ramadans book a read.

quote:

Originally posted by Reds:

quote:

Originally posted by limer:

quote:

Originally posted by Chief:
Bro Limer,
Have you noticed who are his biggest admirers and supporters?

I am not surprised - at all. After all, they are looking for justification of there way of life.

what is that supposed to mean? do you realize that with that one statement you insulted alot of ppl?


and i also noticed that you guys dont come out and say anything while the dude is on the board..but wait till he hasnt posted for a while to come out and post...why?

I come out when it is conveient for me, I do not have the luxury to post on Company time.

quote:

Originally posted by Chief:
?

I come out when it is conveient for me, I do not have the luxury to post on Company time.[/QUOTE]

chief dealing blows this afternoon.

Jihad
The literal meaning of Jihad is struggle or effort, and it means much more than holy war.

Muslims use the word Jihad to describe three different kinds of struggle:

A believer's internal struggle to live out the Muslim faith as well as possible

Wifey is calling , we have to go and vist some sick relatives, another sunnah of our beloved and noble Prophet (uwbp)
Krish enjoy yourself.

Here is a lecture by Tariq Ramadan at the RIS confrence in Toronto back in December, 2006:

http://www.tariqramadan.com/IMG/mp3/TheMuslimidenty.mp3

i will read the suggested book abu. i am going to be an islamic scholar(not to become a believer) but to be scolarly and iteelectually in the know since muslims are now dominating worls news.

quote:

Originally posted by krishna:
i will read the suggested book abu. i am going to be an islamic scholar(not to become a believer) but to be scolarly and iteelectually in the know since muslims are now dominating worls news.

I can see where you are coming from. There is no harm in your apporach. I wish more Muslims think like you.

His lecture on the sociology of Terrorism:

http://www.tariqramadan.com/IMG/mp3/Sociology_of_terrorism.mp3


I didnt listen to this one yet but lets see if he sheds some light on your question.

Maybe you made a freudian slip? TAQWA is god consciousness...I see none of you as god.

quote:

Originally posted by limer:

quote:

Originally posted by khaleel:
Agreed. But who told you you have taqwa or knowledge? Don't you see that it is arrogance to claim humility and taqwa for yourself? Really...don't you guys sense how perverted your positions are? How much time have you spent trying to get personal? The companions? I respect them as MEN and WOMEN who did good things and bad things. Must I respect Muawiya? The murderer? Must I say, Ali (ra) and his progeny (ra) were hated by muawiay (ra)? Must I say that the companions of Muawaiya (ra) tried to kill the companions of ali (ra/). Does the quran not tell you jokers not to make lords out of humans?

quote:

Originally posted by limer:
Knowledge sometimes make one humble and others arogant. Clearly we see proof of this in the pages and pages of nonsense here.

Knowledge has no benefit to the human without taqwa. The tone of the posts of our resident 'scholar' exudes arogance. He makes fun of the Sahaabas (ra) and Rasulullah (saw).
See some example below...
Yet you guys continue...

quote:

Becasue when I say Muhammad I don't say salabangbangbang

quote:

...but tell me, don't you find it irritating when you are speaking to one of my coreligionists and s/he says "Hamza (raddddaaaaddaa) reported that Abu Bakr (radddaaadaa) said that he heard Omar (radaang) say that he heard the Prophet (salababan) say that...

The theme is quite similar to another resident Islam basher. How ironic.

I never claim such, my brother. In fact, It is what I strive for daily. You, however, have claimed to have studied far and wide. I would expect you to have taqwa even for the rest of us - Yet you've display (by your writings) the lack of such quite clearly. I am sorry we don't see eye to eye. May Allah (swt) guide us.

Krishna
Tariq R is a good scholar. So too is Abou el fadl. So to is Arkoun. There is no scarcity. But the problem lies not in WHAT the Qur'an says. The problem lies in what Muslims (yes, those Big Ass M's) do in the name of Islam. And then rush to quote verses that somehow shelter actions. For example, I just pointed out about Muawiya. No answer...but that Ali's son could respect him. Really? But even if he did, that is his choice..I have mine. Muslims have to realise that piety and propriety are not by me claiming to love Muhammad and his companions (after all, they are dead as doornails and what we supposedly know about them is often tinged by legend). What is important is that we harmoniously coexist with EACH other as citizens of a contemporary universe. Even if some of us are certified lunatics or perverts. See, M's philosophy allowed the visitation fo patients ( I agree), but somehow, it allows the INCIPIENT slinging of insults and backbiting. I am allowed to respond to an insult so I will. Note I am responding to several here...so Krsna, please read the lines and know that I am not dissing you. THus far I agree with all that you say).And you ain't Muslim. Holy crap...Allah might put me in hell for agreeing with you. In that case, please arrange for some roti and stale saltfish. Plus bhais, if you know that you is going to hell since u ain't muslim according to some of my unschooled scholars, why do good? Why not go party, smoke up, dope up...

quote:

Originally posted by krishna:
i will read the suggested book abu. i am going to be an islamic scholar(not to become a believer) but to be scolarly and iteelectually in the know since muslims are now dominating worls news.

Thinking of the Future:

http://www.tariqramadan.com/IMG/mp3/TochangethePresentandtodreamtheFuture.mp3

ANd why, dear Krnsa, are we dominating world news? Is it because of a 'noble and beloved" prophet whose example we follow? I guess the israeli babies who were murdered, the shiite/sunnis murdered by each other, the ahmadies slaughtered by big M muslims..and we wonder why people hate us?
And then one has to talk about me disrespecting Muhammad/ Corretion..I don't disrespect the MAN. I disrespect the LEGEND that a jihadist bunch has created through their excrementitious reasoning (note to all..I love using that word...see gangs of New york.). They talk about loving the quran, loving the sunna...forgetting that what the actually love is a philosohpy made up by people who DEFIED the Qur'an. Krisha keeps asking for proof of JIhad. And the Abu of it all comes with nonsense. If we have to defend our religion so strongly, does that not indicate something is wrong? If wata is cleen, everybadee know ee clean. If ee nasty, all badee know ee nasty. No mata what doktorate you got, you can't prove dutty wata clean. Am I being anti'Islamic? no. I am saying that CONTEMPORARY JIHADIST PARTICULARISTIC interpretations of Islam are like dutty wata. Perhaps, alcohol will kill the bacteria that makes it malignant. In that case, drink up. Raj, gyal, pass de johnny pun de right hand side. (is sunna in islam to give tings wid de right hand...if you throw the grenade with the left hand, allatalla not going bless you, but if you throw it wid de right hand, say bismillah, praise the prophet, you going to heaven.

quote:

Originally posted by krishna:
i will read the suggested book abu. i am going to be an islamic scholar(not to become a believer) but to be scolarly and iteelectually in the know since muslims are now dominating worls news.

HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMm.

quote:

Originally posted by Abu Jihad:

quote:

Originally posted by krishna:
i will read the suggested book abu. i am going to be an islamic scholar(not to become a believer) but to be scolarly and iteelectually in the know since muslims are now dominating worls news.

I can see where you are coming from. There is no harm in your apporach. I wish more Muslims think like you.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by khaleel:

if you throw the grenade with the left hand, allatalla not going bless you, but if you throw it wid de right hand, say bismillah, praise the prophet, you going to heaven. [QUOTE]

**********************************************************



Subhan Allah(swt)... Mr Scholar ..where did you learn dis...did you study with Osama dem.???

why are sunnis and shiites fighting, killing?

arent they "brother" muslims.

quote:

Originally posted by krishna:
why are sunnis and shiites fighting, killing?

arent they "brother" muslims.

Ask your skull-lar friend naa.(:(:

quote:

Originally posted by krishna:
i am going to be an islamic scholar(not to become a believer) but to be scolarly and iteelectually in the know since muslims are now dominating worls news.

GNI already has one.lol
2 is a crowd, GNI too small.

quote:

Originally posted by SuperMike:

quote:

Originally posted by krishna:
why are sunnis and shiites fighting, killing?

arent they "brother" muslims.

Ask your skull-lar friend naa.(:(:

khaleel is not my friend yet. i have never emailed, Pm or called him.

But i will neva understand the supposedly love of fellow muslims has denigrated into wholesacle intolerance of each other based on minor philosophy differences

quote:

Originally posted by Chief:

quote:

Originally posted by krishna:
i am going to be an islamic scholar(not to become a believer) but to be scolarly and iteelectually in the know since muslims are now dominating worls news.

GNI already has one.lol
2 is a crowd, GNI too small.

Sallam Bro...lots of snow here..7 inches..how are you..will be in NY next Sunday(4th).