quote:

Kleptocrats maintain power by disarming the populace and arming the elite, making the masses happy by redistributing the tribute, keeping order and curbing violence (compared to bands and tribes), promoting religion and ideology that justifies kleptocracy (and that promotes self-sacrifice on behalf of others), building public works, etc.

States are especially good at developing weapons of war, providing troops, promoting religion (fanaticism) and patriotic fervor that makes troops willing to fight suicidally.

quote:

Originally posted by Petal29:
When religion is taken literally without analysis and thought the ugly side of it is often times demonstrated. Too many are lost and are looking for some miracle in religion when they should be looking within.

quote:

Originally posted by ksazma:
Would the result at Jonestown have been different if those followers were to ask why it is necessary fot them to drink the koolaid. What would have been the result if they were or felt free to question their leader. What a tragedy it is when we follow without understanding what we are following. Even worse is when we do that which we don't agree with.

quote:

Originally posted by The One:

quote:

Originally posted by ksazma:
Would the result at Jonestown have been different if those followers were to ask why it is necessary fot them to drink the koolaid. What would have been the result if they were or felt free to question their leader. What a tragedy it is when we follow without understanding what we are following. Even worse is when we do that which we don't agree with.

When people are looking for salvation, there are hardly questions. Most of these people follow their leaders blindly...David Koresh, Jim Jones, Charles Manson.

quote:

Originally posted by Petal29:
When religion is taken literally without analysis and thought the ugly side of it is often times demonstrated. Too many are lost and are looking for some miracle in religion when they should be looking within.

quote:

Originally posted by dara shikoh:

IT is for this reason that I, by the power vested in my holiness, started to sell jharray claasts. But ye of little faith don't want to pursue the means of salvation. So ye shall suffa. Avoid it by sending me a certified check for 56.98 and I will issue a jharray claat that is guaranteed to make you a betta person and that will have a special scent to allow St Peter to let you guys in that big garden in de skye.

quote:

Originally posted by The One:
When people are looking for salvation, there are hardly questions. Most of these people follow their leaders blindly...David Koresh, Jim Jones, Charles Manson.

quote:

Originally posted by antabanta:
One of the criticisms of Jared Diamond is that his book does not refer to any religious work for his statements on religion, insinuating he doesn't know what he's talking about.
Is that criticism fair, considering
1. Religious books won't offer the ideas promoted by Jared Diamond and other critics of religion
2. Do you really need to read religious books to understand how religion has been and is used as a tool of the state?

quote:

Originally posted by antabanta:
One of the criticisms of Jared Diamond is that his book does not refer to any religious work for his statements on religion, insinuating he doesn't know what he's talking about.
Is that criticism fair, considering
1. Religious books won't offer the ideas promoted by Jared Diamond and other critics of religion
2. Do you really need to read religious books to understand how religion has been and is used as a tool of the state?

quote:

Originally posted by Petal29:

quote:

Originally posted by antabanta:
One of the criticisms of Jared Diamond is that his book does not refer to any religious work for his statements on religion, insinuating he doesn't know what he's talking about.
Is that criticism fair, considering
1. Religious books won't offer the ideas promoted by Jared Diamond and other critics of religion
2. Do you really need to read religious books to understand how religion has been and is used as a tool of the state?

I haven’t read the book but if he’s criticizing the promotion of religion for kleptocratic governance then I don’t think it’s absolutely necessary that he reads the books because he is basically critiquing a system that uses religious indoctrination as a means of oppression and not necessarily religion. If he were criticizing religion THEN he ought to have knowledge of that which he is criticizing.

quote:

yeah.... all a dat... especially all dem big words.. :D :D

quote:

Originally posted by Petal29:

quote:

yeah.... all a dat... especially all dem big words.. :D :D

You started it! Emoticons doan wuk hay...ppl have serious discussions on this side.

The books sounds interesting...will put it on my list...

Is he including the Moghuls in his analysis? What did Europe have to offer that other peoples would have wanted? :)

quote:

New Guineans?

quote:

Originally posted by coco:

quote:

Originally posted by dara shikoh:

IT is for this reason that I, by the power vested in my holiness, started to sell jharray claasts. But ye of little faith don't want to pursue the means of salvation. So ye shall suffa. Avoid it by sending me a certified check for 56.98 and I will issue a jharray claat that is guaranteed to make you a betta person and that will have a special scent to allow St Peter to let you guys in that big garden in de skye.

Suh yuh dus sell tabeej too? Serious, meh tink ah jinn deh pan someone I know.