Mar 08, 2007 04:30 AM
Haroon Siddiqui

BRUSSELS – Is Quebec aping Europe's Islamophobia, just as Europe is pulling back from it?

The question is prompted by the ban imposed on a Muslim hijabi girl at a soccer tournament in Laval, and the decision of the town council of Herouxville to ban immigrants who might support the stoning of women or other objectionable practices.

On reflection, the answer is this:

No, Quebec is not necessarily going berserk.

The hijab case is just another variation on finding reasonable accommodation for a myriad of minority practices. Catholics, Hutterites, Jews, Sikhs and others have posed similar challenges before. Muslims are now following the honourable Canadian tradition of standing up for their rights, and Canadians will no doubt use common sense to find common ground. We hope so.

As for Herouxville, its pronouncements have already been widely derided.

My concerns lie elsewhere – in the emotionalism and double standards that have characterized recent debates on Muslims. A democratic society is in trouble when it allows prejudice or fear to drive its discourse toward incoherence and irrationality.

Herouxville has banned a practice that was not coming, and could not possibly have come, to Canada.

This is a replay of Ontario banning the sharia, which was not coming and could not possibly have come to Canada, even if some of its proponents foolishly thought so and some of its critics cleverly exploited the assertion to fan public fears that an Islamic penal code was indeed on the way.

All that had been asked was that Muslim Ontarians be allowed to use the 1991 Arbitration Act in family disputes the way Christians and Jews had been for more than a decade. Confronted with a public furor, the government banned the practice for everyone – a right decision arrived at for all the wrong reasons.

Similarly, in Australia and across Europe, several nations have decided that their failure to integrate Muslims because of widespread racism is, in fact, the fault of multiculturalism, a policy they never had, in the sense you and I understand it, namely, extending equality and the dignity of citizenship to all people, regardless of race, religion or ethnicity.

Yet Australia, Germany, Britain, Sweden and others are publicly abandoning what they never practised.

This lack of logic and coherence in public policy points to the panic that's driving our democratic societies in this post-9/11 era.

In the soccer case – in which Premier Jean Charest shamefully refused to take a principled stance – it has been pointed out by some that the referee in question was a Muslim. That fact alone is supposed to have legitimized his decision.

This provides a useful insight into the temper of the times.

We would not adopt such a tribal assumption about referees of other faiths. We would not presume that their decisions were motivated by their religion. And if they indeed were, we would be chagrined that they were.

It gets worse.

While we dare not cite, say, dissident Catholics or Jews to rationalize discrimination against practising Catholics and Jews, many people routinely invoke contrarian Muslim voices to lecture Muslims on how they should practise their religion.

So it was that at the height of the sharia debate in Ontario that the Charest government used the sole Muslim member of the National Assembly, the Liberal Fatima Houda-Pepin, to lead a symbolic vote against the measure. The message was simple: If she was saying it, surely it must be a horrible thing.

It may well have been, but not because she was saying it.

The media are an unwitting partner in this dirty game. The quickest way for a Muslim to be quoted these days is to attack fellow Muslims or, better still, Islam.

This is not to deny anyone freedom of speech. The media also have the right to quote whomever they wish. And governments may be excused for following public opinion rather than leading it. But our public discourse is dangerously distorted, and public policy badly skewed, when we follow different standards for different communities. We demean our democracy.

The world looks up to Canada for its multicultural achievements. Here in Brussels, the headquarters of the European Commission, people routinely invoke Canada to counsel member-states to learn how to achieve integration the Canadian way.

"Canada does this much better," says Jan Niesen, director of Migration Policy Group, a non-governmental organization working on issues of mobility, diversity and equality.

"You have done very well in getting past issues of race, skin colour, ethnicity and religion – something Europe is yet to fully come to terms with but simply must.

"If you want to be a global player in the movement of goods and capital, you cannot stop the freer movement of peoples and cultures. Closed societies are dangerous societies."

Canada, having led the way with the formation of a truly global nation, should not surrender its principles to prevailing prejudices, even while retaining the right to decide each new multicultural challenge by using the yardstick of the common good.



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Haroon Siddiqui, the Star's editorial page editor emeritus, appears Thursday and Sunday. hsiddiq@thestar.ca

quote:

The media are an unwitting partner in this dirty game. The quickest way for a Muslim to be quoted these days is to attack fellow Muslims or, better still, Islam.

Look like Haroon was keeping tabs on the media prostitute hanging around this forum.

quote:

media prostitute

Rolleyes

quote:

Originally posted by Abu Jihad:
Look like Haroon was keeping tabs on the media prostitute hanging around this forum.

Very unnecessary and unfortunate comment. Remember that each person has to answer for their own actions.

for the life of me i do not understand WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY some muslims want to have Sharia law here in Canada or anywhere else that is not a muslim country...we come to this country for a better life [not to say Sharia is bad and/or good] but you cannot want to come to another country and impose your law here. Go live in Saudi Arabia.

furthermore...i am not sure how wearing a hijab can distrupt you from playing soccer....instead of making her take it off how bout they leave her with it and have her sign a waiver in case something happens to her physically, the soccer association is not responsible?

all of these things are not necc. - i am sure the coach could have come up with a better solution to avoid this media bru ah ah!

quote:

Originally posted by ksazma:

quote:

Originally posted by Abu Jihad:
Look like Haroon was keeping tabs on the media prostitute hanging around this forum.

Very unnecessary and unfortunate comment. Remember that each person has to answer for their own actions.

We should call a spade a spade, nothing more or less.

quote:

Originally posted by Abu Jihad:
We should call a spade a spade, nothing more or less.

We did. The man still prevailed. So we accept it, leave him alone and move on to our next target. :)

quote:

Originally posted by Reds:
furthermore...i am not sure how wearing a hijab can distrupt you from playing soccer....instead of making her take it off how bout they leave her with it and have her sign a waiver in case something happens to her physically, the soccer association is not responsible?

all of these things are not necc. - i am sure the coach could have come up with a better solution to avoid this media bru ah ah!

why wpuld someone wear hijab playing soccer? suppose is man pretending

quote:

Originally posted by krishna:

quote:

Originally posted by Reds:
furthermore...i am not sure how wearing a hijab can distrupt you from playing soccer....instead of making her take it off how bout they leave her with it and have her sign a waiver in case something happens to her physically, the soccer association is not responsible?

all of these things are not necc. - i am sure the coach could have come up with a better solution to avoid this media bru ah ah!

why wpuld someone wear hijab playing soccer? suppose is man pretending

krisha bai like you had a few too many last night.

We talking hijab not burka.

quote:

Originally posted by Abu Jihad:

quote:

Originally posted by krishna:

quote:

Originally posted by Reds:
furthermore...i am not sure how wearing a hijab can distrupt you from playing soccer....instead of making her take it off how bout they leave her with it and have her sign a waiver in case something happens to her physically, the soccer association is not responsible?

all of these things are not necc. - i am sure the coach could have come up with a better solution to avoid this media bru ah ah!

why wpuld someone wear hijab playing soccer? suppose is man pretending

krisha bai like you had a few too many last night.

We talking hijab not burka.

actually. it was too cold to have a few cold ones.

quote:

Originally posted by krishna:

quote:

Originally posted by Reds:
furthermore...i am not sure how wearing a hijab can distrupt you from playing soccer....instead of making her take it off how bout they leave her with it and have her sign a waiver in case something happens to her physically, the soccer association is not responsible?

all of these things are not necc. - i am sure the coach could have come up with a better solution to avoid this media bru ah ah!

why wpuld someone wear hijab playing soccer? suppose is man pretending

does a man pretend to have tits?...wait..dont answer that.

its a soccer game - she can wear the hijab...i see nothing wrong...if she rass fall and sling and hang she self in the process.....thats her problem...not mine.

quote:

Originally posted by Reds:

quote:

Originally posted by krishna:

quote:

Originally posted by Reds:
furthermore...i am not sure how wearing a hijab can distrupt you from playing soccer....instead of making her take it off how bout they leave her with it and have her sign a waiver in case something happens to her physically, the soccer association is not responsible?



all of these things are not necc. - i am sure the coach could have come up with a better solution to avoid this media bru ah ah!

why wpuld someone wear hijab playing soccer? suppose is man pretending

does a man pretend to have tits?...wait..dont answer that.

its a soccer game - she can wear the hijab...i see nothing wrong...if she rass fall and sling and hang she self in the process.....thats her problem...not mine.

sounds like a thread starter

what if men had bubby?

quote:

what if men had bubby?

bubby...dependant upon the size.

We had a similar case when Sharif Abdur Rahim refused to stand for the national anthem and the NBA suspended him. They argued that it was proper NBA procedure to stand for the national anthem and if he wanted to play in the NBA, he needs to adapt. YOu know what, he did adapt. I don't know why he objected in the first place. She has to follow the rules of the game or try a different game.

quote:

We had a similar case when Sharif Abdur Rahim refused to stand for the national anthem and the NBA suspended him. They argued that it was proper NBA procedure to stand for the national anthem and if he wanted to play in the NBA, he needs to adapt. YOu know what, he did adapt. I don't know why he objected in the first place. She has to follow the rules of the game or try a different game.

You are missing the essence of this topic. People need to stand up for what is right not submit to prejudices.

Read the article again, brother Haroon has done a wonderful job.

This child has the support of her team and most of the canadian public so why subject yourself to a few bigots.

Big up to Bro Abu

quote:

Originally posted by ksazma:
We had a similar case when Sharif Abdur Rahim refused to stand for the national anthem and the NBA suspended him. They argued that it was proper NBA procedure to stand for the national anthem and if he wanted to play in the NBA, he needs to adapt. YOu know what, he did adapt. I don't know why he objected in the first place. She has to follow the rules of the game or try a different game.

you know, kaz, yes we have to abide by rules..i totally agree...however with a little collaboration and understanding on both parties, things could have been avoided into being blown out of proportion. i really dont see the safety risk here nor the logic why she cannot wear the hijab for the game - in any case if shes a really good player, the more easy it is to spot her and dble team her :):):):):):):)

The problem is one of liability: the nature of the scarf is as such that not only the wearer may be injured, but it could catch on to others. Apart from the inherent prejudice involved agaisnt anything islamic, the fact is nonetheless that the law is the law. YOu don't flaunt it then seek redress. YOu approach it, even if your position is nonsensical, or correct, by the legal avenues. And by protests. By boycotts. NOt by breaking it.

quote:

Originally posted by Reds:
furthermore...i am not sure how wearing a hijab can distrupt you from playing soccer....instead of making her take it off how bout they leave her with it and have her sign a waiver in case something happens to her physically, the soccer association is not responsible?

all of these things are not necc. - i am sure the coach could have come up with a better solution to avoid this media bru ah ah!

Reds....don't forget that the entire hijab wearing idea is promoted by whom? And they don't seem to get the idea that the simple concept of the hijab is dichotomous with her wanting to play...are these not the same scholars who also tell the wopman that her dress is not supposed to be revealing etc. etc?
Note that the top female scholars of islam: azizah al hibri, amina wadud, mona abul fadl etc...are not advocates of hijab..from the point of view of religion. if they do fight for it, it would be from the point of view of a woman's personal choice. Two different issues.

quote:

Originally posted by Reds:

quote:

Originally posted by ksazma:
We had a similar case when Sharif Abdur Rahim refused to stand for the national anthem and the NBA suspended him. They argued that it was proper NBA procedure to stand for the national anthem and if he wanted to play in the NBA, he needs to adapt. YOu know what, he did adapt. I don't know why he objected in the first place. She has to follow the rules of the game or try a different game.

you know, kaz, yes we have to abide by rules..i totally agree...however with a little collaboration and understanding on both parties, things could have been avoided into being blown out of proportion. i really dont see the safety risk here nor the logic why she cannot wear the hijab for the game - in any case if shes a really good player, the more easy it is to spot her and dble team her :):):):):):):)

quote:

Originally posted by khaleel:
The problem is one of liability: the nature of the scarf is as such that not only the wearer may be injured, but it could catch on to others. Apart from the inherent prejudice involved agaisnt anything islamic, the fact is nonetheless that the law is the law. YOu don't flaunt it then seek redress. YOu approach it, even if your position is nonsensical, or correct, by the legal avenues. And by protests. By boycotts. NOt by breaking it.

quote:

Originally posted by Reds:
furthermore...i am not sure how wearing a hijab can distrupt you from playing soccer....instead of making her take it off how bout they leave her with it and have her sign a waiver in case something happens to her physically, the soccer association is not responsible?

all of these things are not necc. - i am sure the coach could have come up with a better solution to avoid this media bru ah ah!

i dont see how it hook on to someone else - jewellery is not allowed to be worn when playing sports. if she wore it thinking nothing of it and then was asked to remove it....that would not indicate that she just "broke" the law, unless she knew it prior to wearing her hijab. now, i used to play soccer in highschool - i didnt know there was such a rule about head gear. what if someone needs to wear a face gaurd for protective reasons that straps around on top of the head?....what is the difference if they sign a waiver?

quote:

Originally posted by khaleel:
Reds....don't forget that the entire hijab wearing idea is promoted by whom? And they don't seem to get the idea that the simple concept of the hijab is dichotomous with her wanting to play...are these not the same scholars who also tell the wopman that her dress is not supposed to be revealing etc. etc?
Note that the top female scholars of islam: azizah al hibri, amina wadud, mona abul fadl etc...are not advocates of hijab..from the point of view of religion. if they do fight for it, it would be from the point of view of a woman's personal choice. Two different issues.

quote:

Originally posted by Reds:

quote:

Originally posted by ksazma:
We had a similar case when Sharif Abdur Rahim refused to stand for the national anthem and the NBA suspended him. They argued that it was proper NBA procedure to stand for the national anthem and if he wanted to play in the NBA, he needs to adapt. YOu know what, he did adapt. I don't know why he objected in the first place. She has to follow the rules of the game or try a different game.

you know, kaz, yes we have to abide by rules..i totally agree...however with a little collaboration and understanding on both parties, things could have been avoided into being blown out of proportion. i really dont see the safety risk here nor the logic why she cannot wear the hijab for the game - in any case if shes a really good player, the more easy it is to spot her and dble team her :):):):):):):)

you have to realize that the mass majority of muslims have grown up with the idea of "hijab" and some are ingrained with it from inception of understanding. you as a scholar and along with others - comes along to say that it is choice, not mandatory - you are not going to change their initial belief. if the girl feels that she is rightful to wear it and it does not pose a harm to anyone else..what is the problem?

all i am saying is that the coach and the inidividual could have dealt with this better w/o it getting into a much bigger - international issue now. Muslims need just more thing to add to the plate dont we?

I don't accept the idea that the mass of Muslikms see the hijab as such. Look around: largest Muslim country in the world: Indonesia. So what percent wears the hijab..bosnia, india, china, turkey, algeria, egypt, tunis, libya...the hijab phenomenon is largely NEW after the Saudi petrodollars and the spread of THEIR concepts. Prior to that, the hijab was not a big thing except in the Hijazi influenced Middle east. WE say it is not mandatory...I go further..as do some scholars to say that it is retrogressive if one does not know the time and place for its revelation. Lynda Clarke (wife of Mahmoud Ayoub) has written on this. By focusing on the hijab issue, she make all Muslims look like a bunch of fanatics.

quote:

Originally posted by Reds:

quote:

Originally posted by khaleel:
Reds....don't forget that the entire hijab wearing idea is promoted by whom? And they don't seem to get the idea that the simple concept of the hijab is dichotomous with her wanting to play...are these not the same scholars who also tell the wopman that her dress is not supposed to be revealing etc. etc?
Note that the top female scholars of islam: azizah al hibri, amina wadud, mona abul fadl etc...are not advocates of hijab..from the point of view of religion. if they do fight for it, it would be from the point of view of a woman's personal choice. Two different issues.

quote:

Originally posted by Reds:

quote:

Originally posted by ksazma:
We had a similar case when Sharif Abdur Rahim refused to stand for the national anthem and the NBA suspended him. They argued that it was proper NBA procedure to stand for the national anthem and if he wanted to play in the NBA, he needs to adapt. YOu know what, he did adapt. I don't know why he objected in the first place. She has to follow the rules of the game or try a different game.

you know, kaz, yes we have to abide by rules..i totally agree...however with a little collaboration and understanding on both parties, things could have been avoided into being blown out of proportion. i really dont see the safety risk here nor the logic why she cannot wear the hijab for the game - in any case if shes a really good player, the more easy it is to spot her and dble team her :):):):):):):)

you have to realize that the mass majority of muslims have grown up with the idea of "hijab" and some are ingrained with it from inception of understanding. you as a scholar and along with others - comes along to say that it is choice, not mandatory - you are not going to change their initial belief. if the girl feels that she is rightful to wear it and it does not pose a harm to anyone else..what is the problem?

all i am saying is that the coach and the inidividual could have dealt with this better w/o it getting into a much bigger - international issue now. Muslims need just more thing to add to the plate dont we?

In school I played socer in the rain and I wore a cap. Nobody threw me out. You can also wear a sweat band over your head.
In israel I have seen players wearing their yarmulke.

The whole scenario is idiotic. They want muslims to integrate into the social structure of western society but set up laws preventing integration.

But, I guess integration means donning a short skirt and wining up a storm in the strip bar. Ah, but what if the winer is wearing a hijab???

Why a bunch of fanatics? for the simple fact that a woman wants to wear a head covering? what is the big deal? what about the largest muslims countries? are they playing womens soccer? [now i really dont know the answer to that] - i would like to see proof of this girl play soccer - as a demo - and see if it harms anyone else. Remember clearly: Quran advocates "logic" - rules of a sports game for safety is built on "logical" scenerios that could occur that would hurt the player[s] - show me the logic where it states that a head covering - hijab - will be harmful to the player[s] - please remember - just bc you stand up for something does not mean that you are a "fanatic"

quote:

Originally posted by khaleel:
I don't accept the idea that the mass of Muslikms see the hijab as such. Look around: largest Muslim country in the world: Indonesia. So what percent wears the hijab..bosnia, india, china, turkey, algeria, egypt, tunis, libya...the hijab phenomenon is largely NEW after the Saudi petrodollars and the spread of THEIR concepts. Prior to that, the hijab was not a big thing except in the Hijazi influenced Middle east. WE say it is not mandatory...I go further..as do some scholars to say that it is retrogressive if one does not know the time and place for its revelation. Lynda Clarke (wife of Mahmoud Ayoub) has written on this. By focusing on the hijab issue, she make all Muslims look like a bunch of fanatics.

quote:

Originally posted by Reds:

quote:

Originally posted by khaleel:
Reds....don't forget that the entire hijab wearing idea is promoted by whom? And they don't seem to get the idea that the simple concept of the hijab is dichotomous with her wanting to play...are these not the same scholars who also tell the wopman that her dress is not supposed to be revealing etc. etc?
Note that the top female scholars of islam: azizah al hibri, amina wadud, mona abul fadl etc...are not advocates of hijab..from the point of view of religion. if they do fight for it, it would be from the point of view of a woman's personal choice. Two different issues.

quote:

Originally posted by Reds:

quote:

Originally posted by ksazma:
We had a similar case when Sharif Abdur Rahim refused to stand for the national anthem and the NBA suspended him. They argued that it was proper NBA procedure to stand for the national anthem and if he wanted to play in the NBA, he needs to adapt. YOu know what, he did adapt. I don't know why he objected in the first place. She has to follow the rules of the game or try a different game.

you know, kaz, yes we have to abide by rules..i totally agree...however with a little collaboration and understanding on both parties, things could have been avoided into being blown out of proportion. i really dont see the safety risk here nor the logic why she cannot wear the hijab for the game - in any case if shes a really good player, the more easy it is to spot her and dble team her :):):):):):):)

you have to realize that the mass majority of muslims have grown up with the idea of "hijab" and some are ingrained with it from inception of understanding. you as a scholar and along with others - comes along to say that it is choice, not mandatory - you are not going to change their initial belief. if the girl feels that she is rightful to wear it and it does not pose a harm to anyone else..what is the problem?

all i am saying is that the coach and the inidividual could have dealt with this better w/o it getting into a much bigger - international issue now. Muslims need just more thing to add to the plate dont we?

some male talibans does dress like a lady .. so I guess they want to make sure its a female and not a male. ..lol