This question is primarily for non-Muslims and carries no undercurrent of rivalry or so. I am delivering a paper on islam and modern business. I have the idea that many "scholars" are way behind the times when it comes to modern business. Does anyone have any examples, besides the subject of bank interest, that supports my contention? If you are being very scholarly, and could point me in the direction of your references, it would be appreciated.
(as an example, I point out that there is no word in Arabic for interest as opposed to usury...creating a great problem)

quote:

Originally posted by dara shikoh:
This question is primarily for non-Muslims and carries no undercurrent of rivalry or so. I am delivering a paper on islam and modern business. I have the idea that many "scholars" are way behind the times when it comes to modern business. Does anyone have any examples, besides the subject of bank interest, that supports my contention? If you are being very scholarly, and could point me in the direction of your references, it would be appreciated.
(as an example, I point out that there is no word in Arabic for interest as opposed to usury...creating a great problem)

Interest is the price of money.
In business the price of goods and services is based on supply and demand to a certain degree, so is money.
Money is a good, stocks and bonds are goods.
All goods traded yield a profit or loss.
In foreign exchange transactions, when currency is exchanged, and a gain is made, that gain is based on the price of money. Stocks pay dividends and bonds yield interest.
Inflation is also a measure of gain or loss on your investment. If a bank pays you 3% interest on your money, and inflation is 4%, your actually returns in real value are -1%, a loss. This why PV/FV (present value/future value)concepts should be important to scholars.

Thanks T. That i know...which is why I consider it a foregone conclusion..that the ulama are in the 7th century on the issue of interest. But other areas? How about the issue of 'sin' stocks? Or the selling of pork and wine?

quote:

Originally posted by dara shikoh:
Thanks T. That i know...which is why I consider it a foregone conclusion..that the ulama are in the 7th century on the issue of interest. But other areas? How about the issue of 'sin' stocks? Or the selling of pork and wine?

Those are philosophical and ethical questions. If you don't smoke, should you sell cigarettes?

Stocks imply ownership of the company, so if you hold stocks for pork bellies you actually own a piece of the company.(;-)

quote:

Originally posted by Terry Ishmael:

quote:

Originally posted by dara shikoh:
Thanks T. That i know...which is why I consider it a foregone conclusion..that the ulama are in the 7th century on the issue of interest. But other areas? How about the issue of 'sin' stocks? Or the selling of pork and wine?

Those are philosophical and ethical questions. If you don't smoke, should you sell cigarettes?

Stocks imply ownership of the company, so if you hold stocks for pork bellies you actually own a piece of the company.(;-)

Aha. See, all humans agree that cigarettes are bad for you from whatever viewpoint you approach the matter. Pork however is another matter altogether. if a muslim has a partnership with a non Muslim who eats pork, and whose clientele eats pork, why should the Muslim say he ain't gonna sell pork?

Isn't the pork haram based on antiquated reasoning?

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Originally posted by ICIP:
Isn't the pork haram based on antiquated reasoning?

All the Qur'an says is that the flesh of swine is forbidden. It does not give a reason.

It however stated that pork was permissible to the Children of Israel but that permission was withdrawn as a form of punishment.

The best reading on such a topic is Tariq Ramadans book Towards being a western muslim. There is a chapter on conducting business and raising capital etc.

quote:

Originally posted by ICIP:
Isn't the pork haram based on antiquated reasoning?

What happen if you pork an infidel girl?

quote:

Originally posted by ICIP:
Isn't the pork haram based on antiquated reasoning?

Depends on what you mean. If nutritional, certainly yes. The problem is that we MISTAKENLY assume that it has to do with food. Anthropologists have found out it had to do with "taboo"--and comes from judaism, with the pig being a divine figure among certain areas, and so was dissed. The bible also makes it as being against a norm...it has cloven feet but does not chew the cud. Also omnivorous...that screws up the food chain hierarchy. but a lot of the legistlation regarding pork in Islamic law is antiquated

quote:

Originally posted by Abu Jihad:
The best reading on such a topic is Tariq Ramadans book Towards being a western muslim. There is a chapter on conducting business and raising capital etc.

Thanks will check out, did not even think of looking there.

quote:

Originally posted by Terry Ishmael:

quote:

Originally posted by ICIP:
Isn't the pork haram based on antiquated reasoning?

What happen if you pork an infidel girl?

bhai..the term infidel was first applied to the MUSLIMS by the CHRISTIANS. Check the crusader history. If you porking her, just say bismillah before you eat.

Plus the Qur'an also said that one can eat pork under need which means that it was not forbidden because of health reasons since Allah would never allow something under need that was harmful to our health. Perhaps those claims were made because they simplify the explanation.

quote:

Originally posted by Terry Ishmael:

What happen if you pork an infidel girl?

Hope I am not in deep shit here? :))

quote:

Originally posted by ksazma:

quote:

Originally posted by Terry Ishmael:

What happen if you pork an infidel girl?

Hope I am not in deep shit here? :))

wrang whole ...lol

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Originally posted by ICIP:
[QUOTE]wrang whole ...lol

deliveries in the rear.