quote:

Originally posted by Fu Real:

quote:

Originally posted by Reds:
FU REAL

i think we both can read and understand what Quran says. However, when one is angry and raises his or her hand to assualt another...do we all know when to stop??? why start something that could end up really bad for all involved?

There are two extremes in every matter, as Muslims we should choose the middle ground and try to emulate the Prophet (pbuh)

as muslims we should do alot of things, but that is not the case.

quote:

Originally posted by Fu Real:

quote:

Originally posted by Reds:
FU REAL

i think we both can read and understand what Quran says. However, when one is angry and raises his or her hand to assualt another...do we all know when to stop??? why start something that could end up really bad for all involved?

The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: "The best of you are those who are slow to anger and swift to cool down...Beware of anger, for it is a live coal on the heart of the descendants of Adam." - Al-Tirmidhi, Hadith 1331

amen to that.

In another narration by Abu Huraira (May Allah be pleased with him man said to the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH ) Advise me.
The Prophet Muhammad (). Said : Do not become angry

The man asked the same question again and again and the Prophet Muhammad(PBUH) Replied by in each case by saying:

Do not become angry and furious

quote:

Originally posted by Reds:

quote:

Originally posted by Fu Real:

quote:

Originally posted by Reds:
FU REAL

i think we both can read and understand what Quran says. However, when one is angry and raises his or her hand to assualt another...do we all know when to stop??? why start something that could end up really bad for all involved?

There are two extremes in every matter, as Muslims we should choose the middle ground and try to emulate the Prophet (pbuh)

As muslims we should do alot of things, but that is not the case.

As of me, I try to practice Islam to the best of my knowledge and will always be striving towards perfecting this deen with Allah’s help. I am striving towards saving myself and family from the fire.

Are you sure the prophet never hit his wife?

quote:

Originally posted by Fu Real:
In another narration by Abu Huraira (May Allah be pleased with him man said to the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH ) Advise me.
The Prophet Muhammad (). Said : Do not become angry

The man asked the same question again and again and the Prophet Muhammad(PBUH) Replied by in each case by saying:

Do not become angry and furious

Suppose she has another man with you, and taking your money and giving it to the sweetman? Isn't that grounds for beating?

Somehow I thought this thread will take off...I was right.

quote:

Originally posted by Fu Real:

quote:

Originally posted by ksazma:
If wife beating is a Qur'anic command, I am prepared to disobey it. Fortunately it is not so I am safe. I also refuse to be the judge of my wife. That is Allah's job.

Are you serious ?????

De bais good...I is a chicken

quote:

Originally posted by Abu Jihad:

quote:

Originally posted by Fu Real:

quote:

Originally posted by ksazma:
If wife beating is a Qur'anic command, I am prepared to disobey it. Fortunately it is not so I am safe. I also refuse to be the judge of my wife. That is Allah's job.

Are you serious ?????

He need to say a thousand astagfirullah, followed by a washing of his mouth (no, wait fingers) with soap.

Fu Real and Abu: not siding with anyone here. But examine Kaz's statement: it is what is called "shart" in Arabic..conditional and has a lot of philosphical premises behind it. Obviously wife beating is not a command...and in fact, i left out on my initial post an elemental part: that the idea was that as people got more spiritually advanced, they would see that there is no room for it.
I am surprised however, that no one touched on the issue of S and M. Is that considered beating or not?

quote:

Originally posted by Reds:

quote:

Originally posted by Fu Real:

quote:

Originally posted by Reds:

quote:

Originally posted by Fu Real:

quote:

Originally posted by ksazma:
If wife beating is a Qur'anic command, I am prepared to disobey it. Fortunately it is not so I am safe. I also refuse to be the judge of my wife. That is Allah's job.

Are you serious ?????

whats so difficult to comprehend dude? Islam is a religion of peace, there should be no reason to slap up you wife. she dont treat you good...move on..simple.

I share the same views but to disrespect or disobey a direct instruction from Allah speaks volume. I would not tread on those paths, this there is very dangerous.

okay...but lemme ask you something..is forgiveness not better than physical harm? or walking away from the confrontation?

if you hit a woman these days you can get put away for a long time behind bars...would that be something beneficial to you or your family? Dara gives a good explanation above about the verse in Quran.

Even if..let us just IF here...one is in a situation where he feels in his screwed up mind that ALL the conditions have been met to legitimate a whupping of the wife: based on the law of the land, Islam still forbids it. It is called "yutahammal al darar al khass li daf' al darar al 'aamm"..private tribulation is borne to offset a more pervasive one.
The idea is that if he feels his wife has dissed him, then he takes it and acts not with physical violence because the CONSEQUENCES will be more dangerous and far reaching..he can get thrown in jail, lose his job, his wife, his kids etc. Islamic law does NOT turn a blind eye to these considerations. Unfortunately, most North American imams have not studied that subject "Islamic law maxims" nor the Philosophy of law and are often too quick to pretend to knowledge by issuing verdicts. Even on the North American Fiqh Council there are guyanese..who, are NOT IN THE WILDEST IMAGINATION, qualified to sit on such a panel. One wold assume that the panelists are all jurists..only a few are.

Apologies: i see Super M touched on the issue of S and M.
Despite the joke: the law is that, as Kaz's avatarial note has it "actions are by intention"..the reason behind the beating is to be considered. IS if that both parties are into S and M? That of course does not deny the opening of the door of litigation if one wants to sue the other for excessive application of the belna, pucknie, or other implement.

quote:

Originally posted by dara shikoh:

quote:

Originally posted by Abu Jihad:

quote:

Originally posted by Fu Real:

quote:

Originally posted by ksazma:
If wife beating is a Qur'anic command, I am prepared to disobey it. Fortunately it is not so I am safe. I also refuse to be the judge of my wife. That is Allah's job.

Are you serious ?????

He need to say a thousand astagfirullah, followed by a washing of his mouth (no, wait fingers) with soap.

Fu Real and Abu: not siding with anyone here. But examine Kaz's statement: it is what is called "shart" in Arabic..conditional and has a lot of philosphical premises behind it. Obviously wife beating is not a command...and in fact, i left out on my initial post an elemental part: that the idea was that as people got more spiritually advanced, they would see that there is no room for it.
I am surprised however, that no one touched on the issue of S and M. Is that considered beating or not?

I respect your opinion no this issue but if Allah says that it is OK given that the conditions are met, would you still disobey this instruction? What exactly are you trying to say. I am not asking you to side with anyone but as an Islamic Scholar you can narrow this down for people with limited knowledge like me. As the Islamic scholar I would expect that you would have clarified this issue such that I can walk away from this discussion learning something which would be beneficial not only to me but to every other Muslim I interact with.

Dara is it permissible for a Muslim to beat their wife? I want to hear this from you, this is why this Ummah produced scholars, your opinion matters.Please remember the point in question is that the brother said
"If wife beating is a Qur'anic command, I am prepared to disobey it. Fortunately it is not so I am safe. I also refuse to be the judge of my wife. That is Allah's job."
I suggest you stick to the point in question when responding.

(The Holy Prophet) entered the (house), and said: Why is it, O 'A'isha, that you are out of breath? I said: There is nothing. He said: Tell me or the Subtle and the Aware would inform me. I said: Messenger of Allah, may my father and mother be ransom for you, and then I told him (the whole story). He said: Was it the darkness (of your shadow) that I saw in front of me? I said: Yes. He struck me on the chest which caused me pain, and then said: Did you think that Allah and His Apostle would deal unjustly? ... (Muslim: book 4, hadith 2127)

True or false?

quote:

Originally posted by Abu Jihad:

quote:

Originally posted by Fu Real:

quote:

Originally posted by ksazma:
If wife beating is a Qur'anic command, I am prepared to disobey it. Fortunately it is not so I am safe. I also refuse to be the judge of my wife. That is Allah's job.

Are you serious ?????

He need to say a thousand astagfirullah, followed by a washing of his mouth (no, wait fingers) with soap.

See how you guys live in fear which is bad for your own good? Fear has taken away the desire for Muslims to think. And it shows here because both of you missed the most important word; COMMAND.

But we insist on conducting ourselves against logic while demeaning others for what we think they do without logic.

Kaz
The verse is there. You cannot choose to ignore it.
You may choose to deal with the situation differently, but we have it in writing that it is permissible. You cannot deny the Qur'an.

quote:

Originally posted by rick:
(The Holy Prophet) entered the (house), and said: Why is it, O 'A'isha, that you are out of breath? I said: There is nothing. He said: Tell me or the Subtle and the Aware would inform me. I said: Messenger of Allah, may my father and mother be ransom for you, and then I told him (the whole story). He said: Was it the darkness (of your shadow) that I saw in front of me? I said: Yes. He struck me on the chest which caused me pain, and then said: Did you think that Allah and His Apostle would deal unjustly? ... (Muslim: book 4, hadith 2127)

True or false?

I have never come across that. I will have to check it out.

And there are many Muslim women who are the primary breadwinner in their household. Does that mean that they can reverse the condition or do their dead beat husbands still get to beat them up?

quote:

Originally posted by Terry Ishmael:
Kaz
The verse is there. You cannot choose to ignore it.
You may choose to deal with the situation differently, but we have it in writing that it is permissible. You cannot deny the Qur'an.

It is not a command, it is an option. An option that has no relevance in todays society.

listen to this conversation....which one of yall gonna pelt you woman with a toothbrush???

quote:

Originally posted by Fu Real:
In another narration by Abu Huraira (May Allah be pleased with him man said to the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH ) Advise me.
The Prophet Muhammad (). Said : Do not become angry

The man asked the same question again and again and the Prophet Muhammad(PBUH) Replied by in each case by saying:

Do not become angry and furious

mmmmmmmmmm....i have that problem...

quote:

Originally posted by Reds:

quote:

Originally posted by Fu Real:
In another narration by Abu Huraira (May Allah be pleased with him man said to the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH ) Advise me.
The Prophet Muhammad (). Said : Do not become angry

The man asked the same question again and again and the Prophet Muhammad(PBUH) Replied by in each case by saying:

Do not become angry and furious

mmmmmmmmmm....i have that problem...

Maybe some slaps from your husband might cure it!!!

quote:

Originally posted by rick:

quote:

Originally posted by Reds:

quote:

Originally posted by Fu Real:
In another narration by Abu Huraira (May Allah be pleased with him man said to the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH ) Advise me.
The Prophet Muhammad (). Said : Do not become angry

The man asked the same question again and again and the Prophet Muhammad(PBUH) Replied by in each case by saying:

Do not become angry and furious

mmmmmmmmmm....i have that problem...

Maybe some slaps from your husband might cure it!!!

im not married star..and trust that if he slap me him hand would surely bruk off.

Gender Apartheid

Young girls are left to burn to death in a school fire because they are not suitably attired to be seen in public if rescued. A rape victim is ordered to be whipped 200 lashes and imprisoned six months. Welcome to a few of the horrors of gender apartheid in Saudi Arabia, says Mona Eltahawy.


NEW YORK -- Once upon a time, in a country called South Africa the color of your skin determined where you lived, what jobs you were allowed, and whether you could vote or not.

Decent countries around the world fought the evil of racial apartheid by turning South Africa into a pariah state. They barred it from global events such as the Olympics. Businesses and universities boycotted South Africa, decimating its economy and adding to the isolation of the white-minority government, which finally repealed apartheid laws in 1991

Today in a country called Saudi Arabia it is gender rather than racial apartheid that is the evil but the international community watches quietly and does nothing.

Saudi women cannot vote, cannot drive, cannot be treated in a hospital or travel without the written permission of a male guardian, cannot study the same things men do, and are barred from certain professions. Saudi women are denied many of the same rights that “Blacks” and “Coloreds” were denied in apartheid South Africa and yet the kingdom still belongs to the very same international community that kicked Pretoria out of its club.

To understand the heinous double standards at play, look no further than the case of a 19-year-old Saudi woman who was gang-raped last year.

Despite being abducted and raped by seven men, a court in Saudi Arabia sentenced her to 90 lashes because she was in a car with an unrelated man before she was abducted. Saudi Arabia’s ultra-orthodox interpretation of Islamic law preaches a strict segregation of the sexes.

The young woman had the temerity to appeal -- and publicize her story in the media. And so, earlier this month, the court increased her punishment to 200 lashes and six months in jail. Her lawyer, a prominent human rights defender, was suspended and faces a disciplinary hearing.

And the actual abductors and rapists? They got between two and nine years in jail. A rape conviction in the kingdom usually carries the death penalty, but the court said it did not impose it due to the "lack of witnesses" and the "absence of confessions.

Farida Deif, a researcher at Human Rights Watch women’s rights division, who interviewed the young woman and her lawyer extensively, told me that one of the rapists had filmed the assault with his mobile phone but the judges refused to allow the clip as evidence.

Compare that to the use of such mobile phone footage to convict two police officers in Egypt on November 5, on charges of torturing and sodomizing a bus driver.

A few governments here and there have condemned the Saudi court’s behavior but you can be sure that Saudi Arabia will be there at the next Olympics -- even though it bars women from the national team -- and the world will continue to fete the kingdom’s representatives without a word of chastisement.

Just by agreeing to attend next week’s Israeli-Palestinian peace talks in Annapolis Saudi Arabia merited headline news.

The easy explanation of the world’s apathy to the plight of Saudi women is that the kingdom sits on the world’s largest oil reserves. True.

The more difficult explanation -- and the one that too many avoid -- is that the Saudis have succeeded in pulling a fast one on the world by claiming their religion is the reason they treat women so badly.

I am a Muslim who is constantly wondering how it is that I worship the same God as the Saudis. Islam may have been born in Mecca -- in what is today Saudi Arabia -- but the warped interpretation of my religion prevalent in that country is like a perverse attempt to undo any good that Muslims believe was revealed in Prophet Mohammed’s message in 7th century Arabia.

What kind of God would punish a woman for rape? That is a question that Muslims must ask of Saudi Arabia because unless it is we who challenge the determinedly anti-women teachings of Islam in Saudi Arabia, that kingdom will always get a free pass.

It is easy to dismantle the Saudi clerical claim that it is Islam that justifies their outrageous treatment of girls and women. Indonesia, the world’s most populous Muslim country, a place where women enjoy rights a Saudi woman could only dream of, where they recite the verses of the Quran on television for all to see and hear. In Saudi Arabia, a woman’s voice is considered sinful.

Saudi Arabia’s neighbors -- Egypt, Syria, and the United Arab Emirates -- are all Muslim-majority countries: Women drive, vote, are judges, and hold ministerial portfolios.

The international community must not forget the many brave Saudis such as the gang-rape victim, her lawyer, and the activists who continue to question this oppression by their government and clerics. Their courage deserves the same kind of support the world offered anti-apartheid activists in South Africa.

Nor should the victims of Saudi atrocities be forgotten: In 2002, 15 schoolgirls died when officers of the morality police would not let them out of their burning school building -- and barred firefighters from saving them -- because the girls weren’t wearing the headscarves and the black cloak that all women must wear in public.

How many more girls must die and women suffer rape before the international community names this gender apartheid and condemns it appropriately?

Mona Eltahawy is an award-winning New York-based journalist and commentator, and an international lecturer on Arab and Muslim issues.

Copyright ©2007 Mona Eltahawy/Agence Global

www.monaeltahawy.com

Dara, where are you on this subject? To hit/beat or not to? Dont answer me with a question.

im not married star..and trust that if he slap me him hand would surely bruk off.[/QUOTE]
Heard of "buns of Steel" but are you THAT baad?

quote:

Originally posted by Reds:

quote:

Originally posted by Fu Real:
In another narration by Abu Huraira (May Allah be pleased with him man said to the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH ) Advise me.
The Prophet Muhammad (). Said : Do not become angry

The man asked the same question again and again and the Prophet Muhammad(PBUH) Replied by in each case by saying:

Do not become angry and furious

mmmmmmmmmm....i have that problem...

I noo...betta try and cut it ra$$ out now B 4 yu hussie gun gat fu beat it out of you :)