INTERESTING DISCUSSIONS:

Debate on Wife Beating as instructed in Quran

This woman is very beautiful, who in their right mind would want to beat someone as delicate.

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WIFE BEATINGS: RIGHT OR WRONG?

One of the more controversial issues in Islam is the Quran’s authorization for husbands to beat disobedient wives. This is found in chapter 4, verse 34. Additional references on wife beating are found in Muhammad’s (SAW) traditions (hadith), and biographical material (sira). Many people have criticized Islam because of this harsh sanction and many Muslims have written articles seeking to mollify or defend it.

In review of the actual teachings of the Quran, hadith, and sira, Islam is rightly criticized. This command is not only a harsh way to treat one’s wife, it portrays the degraded position of married women in Islam. It will be shown from the Quran, Hadith, Sira, and other Islamic writings that this "Islamic" wife beating is physical and painful.

Before we discuss wife beating, we must review Islam’s viewpoint of women and comprehend the position, or standing, it places her in with respect to her husband. This is fundamental in understanding the command to beat the disobedient wife. Islam views the woman as inferior to the man and as such, places her in a subservient and subordinate position in the marriage relationship. The man is allowed to discipline his wife because he is her superior and responsible for her. He has the authority to beat his wife if he feels she is being disobedient. Wife beating is merely the bad fruit of a bad theological root.

http://www.answering-islam.org/Silas/wife-beating.htm#_Toc160373808
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Mar 23, 2007
German Judge Okays Wife Abuse

A German judge, Christa Datz-Winter, ruled that a Muslim woman seeking to escape from the clutches of her abusive husband wasn't eligible for divorce. In a decision that verges on the perverse, the judge reasoned that since the couple was from a Moroccan cultural background in which wife beating is tolerated, the woman knew what she was getting into.

This is a woman who endured severe beatings. Her husband even threatened to kill her.

It gets worse. The judge went so far as to evoke 7th century Islamic religious teachings to justify her decision. Against the woman's protests, Datz-Winter began quoting the following sura from the Qu'ran ...

" ... as to those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them and leave them alone in the sleeping places and beat them."

In response the woman's lawyer, Barbara Becker-Rojczyk, argued that in the case of Christians requesting a divorce, judges don't resort to quoting Bible passages.

When these proceedings were publicized a hue and cry followed. Among the loudest to complain were Muslim leaders who were enraged by what they regarded as a distortion of Islamic teaching. They claimed that wife beating was no longer acceptable to Muslims. The German Central Council of Muslims even issued a statement in which they contended that contrary to the judges ruling, wife beating was most certainly grounds for divorce in the Muslim community.

Others weighed in also. Christa Stolle of Terre des Femmes, a women's rights organization, described the decision as "scandalous". A broad based consensus emerged among objectors that religious law can't be allowed to trump German law. A viewpoint also supported by German based Muslim leaders.

Unsurprisingly, Datz-Winter has been removed from office, and another judge appointed to hear the case.

http://aidanmaconachyblog.blogspot.com/2007/03/german-j...kays-wife-abuse.html
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quote:

In review of the actual teachings of the Quran, hadith, and sira, Islam is rightly criticized.

ASJ: two things. Yes, the verse is in the Qu'ran. Second: the source of some of the info you got..answering islam..is a hateful anti-Islamic site.
But to address the issue of wife beating: many make the mistake of seeing the "order" as incipient, as if wife beating did not exist prior to this verse, and that Islam therefore started it.
The fact is that in Judaism, Christianity, Zoroastrianism, the religions of the region, wife beating was a NORM. If one reads Leonard Swidler's "Women in Judaism" one has enough evidence of how women were viewed. What Islam did was to RECOGNIZE the problem of wife beating and seek to deal with it in a manner known as GRADUALISM (taddaruj). Had Muhammad told the men to immediately NOT do it, he would have been laughed out of existence as it was a "manly" right...(almost exactly as some Guyanese men who got paid on Friday nights in the agricultural sector of Guyana decided was their right to beat up on their families). The Qur'an therefore, in recognition of human obstinacy dealt with the manner by making the recourse to beating after several attempts at avoiding it, among them that an arbiter from the WOMAN's family should so decide.
This is certainly better than staying quiet about the matter..it seems as if no other thinker considered it a problem. That being said, it cannot be denied that many Muslim males have taken the verses without regard to its social setting and really beat up on their wives.
In recognizing the spirit of the verse, many Musimls have quoted hadith that show how bad the idea of beating is: among them: how can you make love to your wife and then beat her like an animal? If you must beat her than do so with a toothstick.
I have a problem with the latter "hadith" as even if one hits her with an invisible stick, or a paper shred, it is still an act of violence. For the medievalists, violence was only manifested in physical beatings..and so, in their logic, they tried to show the spirit of the verse.
To this day, ANSWERING ISLAM, a Christian website, has not come up with anything showing from other religions any rhetoric against wife beating.
As for hte idiot judge in Germany....his family rules in Montreal where when a haitian raped a woman, it was ruled that in his culture it happens a lot and must be considered a norm.
I am painfully aware of some Muslim "scholars' who still justify wife beating....not asking for example what should happen to a husband who does what would, in their interpretation, merit a beating were the act committed by the wife....
I see Raj playing with the belna. I gone.

Dem homan need some licks every now and den.

quote:

Originally posted by SuperMike:
Dem homan need some licks every now and den.

I know you always come with these inflammatory comments to see the reaction but I will debate this one with you personally!!

quote:

Originally posted by The One:

quote:

Originally posted by SuperMike:
Dem homan need some licks every now and den.

I know you always come with these inflammatory comments to see the reaction but I will debate this one with you personally!!

OK..well what is your take on this ??

If wife beating is a Qur'anic command, I am prepared to disobey it. Fortunately it is not so I am safe. I also refuse to be the judge of my wife. That is Allah's job.

Is husband beating permissible?
Quick, please, I want to know...ouch!!!!

It is well known fact that the Prophet Muhammad, upon whom be peace, never hit his wives. The Islamic paradigm for marriage is one of love, mercy, and mutual respect, not violence, fighting, and hatred

Hard to reconcile that with what really goes on in the Muslim world.

quote:

Originally posted by ksazma:
If wife beating is a Qur'anic command, I am prepared to disobey it. Fortunately it is not so I am safe. I also refuse to be the judge of my wife. That is Allah's job.

Are you serious ?????

quote:

Originally posted by Terry Ishmael:
Is husband beating permissible?
Quick, please, I want to know...ouch!!!!

In USA.....YES...so tek yu licks and stann eazy Terry.

quote:

Originally posted by Fu Real:

quote:

Originally posted by ksazma:
If wife beating is a Qur'anic command, I am prepared to disobey it. Fortunately it is not so I am safe. I also refuse to be the judge of my wife. That is Allah's job.

Are you serious ?????

whats so difficult to comprehend dude? Islam is a religion of peace, there should be no reason to slap up you wife. she dont treat you good...move on..simple.

quote:

Originally posted by Reds:

quote:

Originally posted by Fu Real:

quote:

Originally posted by ksazma:
If wife beating is a Qur'anic command, I am prepared to disobey it. Fortunately it is not so I am safe. I also refuse to be the judge of my wife. That is Allah's job.

Are you serious ?????

whats so difficult to comprehend dude? Islam is a religion of peace, there should be no reason to slap up you wife. she dont treat you good...move on..simple.

I share the same views but to disrespect or disobey a direct instruction from Allah speaks volume. I would not tread on those paths, this there is very dangerous.

quote:

Originally posted by Fu Real:

quote:

Originally posted by ksazma:
If wife beating is a Qur'anic command, I am prepared to disobey it. Fortunately it is not so I am safe. I also refuse to be the judge of my wife. That is Allah's job.

Are you serious ?????

He need to say a thousand astagfirullah, followed by a washing of his mouth (no, wait fingers) with soap.

quote:

Originally posted by Fu Real:

quote:

Originally posted by Reds:

quote:

Originally posted by Fu Real:

quote:

Originally posted by ksazma:
If wife beating is a Qur'anic command, I am prepared to disobey it. Fortunately it is not so I am safe. I also refuse to be the judge of my wife. That is Allah's job.

Are you serious ?????

whats so difficult to comprehend dude? Islam is a religion of peace, there should be no reason to slap up you wife. she dont treat you good...move on..simple.

I share the same views but to disrespect or disobey a direct instruction from Allah speaks volume. I would not tread on those paths, this there is very dangerous.

okay...but lemme ask you something..is forgiveness not better than physical harm? or walking away from the confrontation?

if you hit a woman these days you can get put away for a long time behind bars...would that be something beneficial to you or your family? Dara gives a good explanation above about the verse in Quran.

quote:

Originally posted by Abu Jihad:

quote:

Originally posted by Fu Real:

quote:

Originally posted by ksazma:
If wife beating is a Qur'anic command, I am prepared to disobey it. Fortunately it is not so I am safe. I also refuse to be the judge of my wife. That is Allah's job.

Are you serious ?????

He need to say a thousand astagfirullah, followed by a washing of his mouth (no, wait fingers) with soap.

They should throw him in jail and give him some soap.

quote:

Originally posted by Reds:

quote:

Originally posted by Fu Real:

quote:

Originally posted by Reds:

quote:

Originally posted by Fu Real:

quote:

Originally posted by ksazma:
If wife beating is a Qur'anic command, I am prepared to disobey it. Fortunately it is not so I am safe. I also refuse to be the judge of my wife. That is Allah's job.

Are you serious ?????

whats so difficult to comprehend dude? Islam is a religion of peace, there should be no reason to slap up you wife. she dont treat you good...move on..simple.

I share the same views but to disrespect or disobey a direct instruction from Allah speaks volume. I would not tread on those paths, this there is very dangerous.

okay...but lemme ask you something..is forgiveness not better than physical harm? or walking away from the confrontation?

if you hit a woman these days you can get put away for a long time behind bars...would that be something beneficial to you or your family? Dara gives a good explanation above about the verse in Quran.

I think I indicated to you that we shared the same views on the wife beating matter.I need to educate myself a little more on this subject.

quote:

Originally posted by Abu Jihad:

quote:

Originally posted by Fu Real:

quote:

Originally posted by ksazma:
If wife beating is a Qur'anic command, I am prepared to disobey it. Fortunately it is not so I am safe. I also refuse to be the judge of my wife. That is Allah's job.

Are you serious ?????

He need to say a thousand astagfirullah, followed by a washing of his mouth (no, wait fingers) with soap.

We all need to say this for at least 100 times everyday.

quote:

Originally posted by Reds:

quote:

Originally posted by Fu Real:

quote:

Originally posted by ksazma:
If wife beating is a Qur'anic command, I am prepared to disobey it. Fortunately it is not so I am safe. I also refuse to be the judge of my wife. That is Allah's job.

Are you serious ?????

whats so difficult to comprehend dude? Islam is a religion of peace, there should be no reason to slap up you wife. she dont treat you good...move on..simple.

What about a couple of slaps first?

I would not rule this out...cause if mee wife punch me ..ah gun clap it back pan she rass. Is dis fare ?????

quote:

Originally posted by SuperMike:
I would not rule this out...cause if mee wife punch me ..ah gun clap it back pan she rass. Is dis fare ?????

no one should be hitting anyone..how bout that concept? supermike if a woman was to slap you..i would think you would first hold her down and tell her to calm down or put she rass out of the house... :)

The Qur'an is very clear on this issue. Almighty Allah says:

"Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more strength than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient and guard in the husband's absence what Allah would have them to guard. As to those women on whose part you fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (next), refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means (of annoyance); for Allah is most High and Great (above you all). If you fear a breach between them twain, appoint (two) arbiters, one from his family and the other from hers. If they wish for peace, Allah will cause their reconciliation; for Allah has full knowledge and is acquainted with all things." (An-Nisa': 34-35)

One should not take part of the verse and use it to justify one's own misconduct. This verse neither permits violence nor condones it. It guides us to ways to handle delicate family situation with care and wisdom. The word "beating" is used in the verse, but it does not mean "physical abuse". The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) explained it "dharban ghayra mubarrih" which means "a light tap that leaves no mark". He further said that face must be avoided. Some other scholars are of the view that it is no more than a light touch by siwak, or toothbrush.

It is also important to note that even this "light strike" mentioned in the verse is not to be used to correct some minor problem, but it is permissible to resort to only in a situation of some serious moral misconduct when admonishing the wife fails, and avoiding from sleeping with her would not help. If this disciplinary action can correct a situation and save the marriage, then one should use it."

Generally, the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) used to discourage his followers from taking even this measure. He never hit any female, and he used to say that the best of men are those who do not hit their wives. In one hadith he expressed his extreme repulsion from this behavior and said, "How does anyone of you beat his wife as he beats the stallion camel and then embrace (sleep with) her?” (Al-Bukhari, English Translation, vol. 8, Hadith 68, pp. 42-43)

May Allah guide us all in this matter.

quote:

Originally posted by rick:

quote:

Originally posted by Reds:

quote:

Originally posted by Fu Real:

quote:

Originally posted by ksazma:
If wife beating is a Qur'anic command, I am prepared to disobey it. Fortunately it is not so I am safe. I also refuse to be the judge of my wife. That is Allah's job.

Are you serious ?????

whats so difficult to comprehend dude? Islam is a religion of peace, there should be no reason to slap up you wife. she dont treat you good...move on..simple.

What about a couple of slaps first?

must beat yuh wife and see what will happen...if she dont call the authorities is rat poison in you food... :)

FU REAL

i think we both can read and understand what Quran says. However, when one is angry and raises his or her hand to assualt another...do we all know when to stop??? why start something that could end up really bad for all involved?

quote:

Originally posted by Reds:

quote:

Originally posted by SuperMike:
I would not rule this out...cause if mee wife punch me ..ah gun clap it back pan she rass. Is dis fare ?????

no one should be hitting anyone..how bout that concept? supermike if a woman was to slap you..i would think you would first hold her down and tell her to calm down or put she rass out of the house... :)

I gun dodge da slap juss fu avoid a fite....if me homan dem wan fu fite..i would suggest we go in the bedroom and lock the door...ding..ding..ding..round # 1