|
Go
|
New
|
Find
|
Notify
|
Tools
|
Reply
|
|
|
Executive Member Location: NY
Registered:: February 25, 1999
Posts: 31761
|
Posted
Bro it is wrong to ask Muslims to apologize for the WTC. Christians have not even apologized for the genocide of native Americans or slavery! Do we ask them to apologize for Hitler or even for Serbian atrocity? This is a preposterous demand. I have lots of gripe about some Muslim nations specifically, some Muslim doctrine but this call for an apology if ever made was nonsensical. The Article above appears to be a rant. It generates rancor rather than quells misconceptions and differences of opinions in theology. Muslims are their own worse enemy. They lack PR knowhow in general and assume inviolable positions on nonsensical issues unnecessarily. Why argue about apologizing? Christians and Jews or any religious group for that matter, are more pragmatic with their contradictory viewpoints. They hardly ever get into long standing arguments about them that generates the status of a negative "disposition" of the Christian. Further, the idea that Christianity is not monolithic in its theology is also an advantage. I will concede the hypocrisies of Christian media also assist in shielding Christianity |
|
Executive Member Location: Long Island
Registered:: March 27, 2001
Posts: 36209
|
Posted
Salaams Bro Mike |
|
Senior Member Location: wherever there is good food
Registered:: February 15, 2007
Posts: 12272
|
Posted
All of u rasses seem to be in some conspiracy to mek sure peeple don't do anything else but try to figure out what the hell is going on. But re RJD and REDS:
1. YOu cannot put what "the Muslims" say into once monolithic bag. In the first place, I am not the only one saying that the arabic text indicates that the book was for an arab readership. NO more than Jesus' message was for the lost sheep of the children of Israel. Both religions later assumed universality under governments that were AFTER their founders. 2. ON the issue of Alexander: The Encyclopedia of Islam is a DUTch ORIENTALIST production and while many of the excerpts may be true, it is NOT representative of all of islamic scholarship. The two horned one, as representative of Alexander was jumped upon by western critics because they loved anything that gave westerners prominence. Remember all the personalities of the Quran are middle eastern. Alexander was not in Arab or Jewish lore as a hero. 3. As far as the Qu'ran is concerned, from a purely philosophical point of view, it may indeed be nonsense. But the fact is that in order to do this, one has to understand its tropes, its idioms etc. And throughout history, NO bonafide scholar, except islamophobes, has made the claim of it being nonsense. The Q is set for a 7th cent. audience, and has to speak in the language of its time. And the same goes for any islamophobe that goes for any Muslim: before you can advance any believable argument, you must understand the language and not rely on translations and concepts that come from phobes. 4. Wa'l ardi wa maa dahaaha. And the earth, and what has made it oval. The concept of the earth being round is equally nonsensical. It is not a perfect sphere. But although there are references throughout the Qur'an that specialists read to be in concordance with modern science, the book is not meant to be a science manual. Yet, howver, the verses that are cited to show the earth being flat are all out of context. The earth being spread like a carpet (wrong trans. by the way)--basata..to be made easy for access. is it not easy for us? 6. Rather than lambast each other's religion, I would suggest all take a look at his/her own belief system. ALL RELIGIONS as someone said earlier are MAN MADE. Does that deny a divine input. NO. But what it does mean is that regardless of a divine revelatory source or not, HUMANS do play a role. Judaism was corrupted by its kings and sages, Christianity by its scribes and emperors (read bart ehrman..misquoting jesus), islam by its leaders and wannabe thinkers. When we try to diss other religions, we put ourselves in the position of experts. And unless we are, we should not go there otherwise the answers may hurt. . Coming back to Alexander: Just for elucidation on Red's question. The arabic is iskander. And known to the egyptians before Muhammad. He was not known in ANY TRACEABLE LORE of the area to be "the two horned one." This was a concoction of people who, reading the Q in the age of greek philosophy, under the time of Ma'mun, who figured out that they had come upon a new i.d. for this unknown person referred to in the Q...we know however that Alexander was definitey not a monotheist, that he had in fact fought and killed zoroastrians. Since these (majus) are respected by Islam, he could not have been a Qru'anci hero. This of course does not deny his heroics in other areas. I cannot be on all the time, so pace Cher et all..when i respond, I do so to several people at once. . To the census figures: that is nonsense. There are no 12 mi. Muslims. Muslim figures put it at abouut 7. Jewish figures put it at 2.5. The reason for the latter is that the Jewish sources do not wish to have the politicians realise the full strenght of the Muslim voting bloc. With undocumented aliens, the figure still would not be 12 mill...but is more akin to the 7 that the Muslim statisticians seem to come up with. Give or take a few hundred thou.
|
|
Executive Member Location: Long Island
Registered:: March 27, 2001
Posts: 36209
|
Posted
D2 , For the most part you are a very fair and objective person. |
|
Senior Member Location: wherever there is good food
Registered:: February 15, 2007
Posts: 12272
|
Posted
D2: damn bwoy..you introduce a nice i.q. to the discussion. Right, on the subject of apologies..it is a bit problematic because the issue is that we are a minority and have been put under the lenses of scrutiny. Right or wrong, what the US seemed to want--albeit in a vast show of hypocritical double standards--was for Muslims to say "we are not as a group in sync with this idiocy. They do not act in the name of islam." The fact is that several, almost every imam and mosque I can think of has made a statement of that sort...and it is the phobes who are saying they did not hear an apology. I am with you that the cited article was a rant and only causes rancor. Peace out. I hope you raases know that i is lucky my job description allows me to use this as work, udderwise I would taking my employer's time in vain.
|
|
Executive Member Location: Long Island
Registered:: March 27, 2001
Posts: 36209
|
Posted
Now this getting interesting the scholar Kal and D2 exchanging some thoughts..(WINK)
|
| <krishna>
|
Posted
this could get rale deep(smile) |
|
Executive Member Location: home
Registered:: March 22, 2001
Posts: 30821
|
Posted
btw...I never asked anyone to apologize...that is a lie started by Chief!
All I said is the article said Muslims should not apologize when they don't in the first place...so the article was nonsense! I did not say anyone should apologize for anything.... |
|
Executive Member Location: Long Island
Registered:: March 27, 2001
Posts: 36209
|
Posted
I posted this article for your attention because of your constant calling that muslims are not doing enough to to condemn the actions of a few misguided muslims. You may not have actually called for an apology but I implied that from your constant grumbleings. |
| <krishna>
|
Posted
chief get off your high horse and admit there are those who are hell bent on creating havoc
|
|
Senior Member Registered:: February 28, 2005
Posts: 10450
|
Posted
like RAY :):):) |
|
Executive Member Location: Long Island
Registered:: March 27, 2001
Posts: 36209
|
Posted
MUSIC |
|
Senior Member Registered:: February 28, 2005
Posts: 10450
|
Posted
Mee i gun stand with me brodas dem anytime. |
|
Senior Member Location: wherever there is good food
Registered:: February 15, 2007
Posts: 12272
|
Posted
Right on.
|
|
Senior Member Registered:: February 28, 2005
Posts: 10450
|
Posted
I would suggest that Muslims like you 2 should shut ah you mouth...you guys only doing a disservice to Islam. |
 Location: Rite Hay
Registered:: January 09, 2003
Posts: 17301
|
Posted
whuh happen bhai, freedom of speech not allowed? is ah good ting you nat a mullah wit any powuh, you sound like wan ah dem people who would axe off dem bhais head. :-)) |
|
Executive Member Location: Long Island
Registered:: March 27, 2001
Posts: 36209
|
Posted
Mike got balls, he telling a Scholar to shut up.
|
|
Member Registered:: June 07, 2000
Posts: 2594
|
Posted
Bring you freedom of speech mumble jumble to the holocaust debate and see if you dont get thrown in jail. |
|
Senior Member Location: wherever there is good food
Registered:: February 15, 2007
Posts: 12272
|
Posted
Is one with Mike type balls that killed Ali. And Umar. And Hassan. And husayn. Yep..a lotta balls.
|
|
Member Registered:: June 07, 2000
Posts: 2594
|
Posted
They were destined to be martyrs. |
|
Location: Rite Hay
Registered:: January 09, 2003
Posts: 17301
|
Posted
If you're speaking about the holocaust debate in Iran then I'd be lucky if jail is all I got and not a loss of my head or being stoned to death. I'm totally against laws in Europe which would send someone to jail for denying the holocaust. It's just as barbaric as Saudian Arabian laws which prohibit religions other than Islam from being practised. |
|
Elite Member Location: Homeless in New York, Lil ABC dropout!
Registered:: March 22, 1999
Posts: 24147
|
Posted
Ah going a trip next week.
Is it Ok fuh me read salah in de plane? |