quote:

Originally posted by khaleel:
While all of ouse arguing about Gawd, I think you should read the Jesus seminar work as well as bart Ehrman's. But as Sachedina says, we now wroship RELIGOIN rather than God...

quote:

Originally posted by ksazma:

quote:

Originally posted by André:
Now please tell me if you are going to carry out the wishes of your Koran which is to remove the heads and fingertips of infidels and why you choose the decision that you make.

No. I am not ever going to place myself in a position where I would feel the need or obligation to inflict any bodily harm on anyone.

Over the past 11 years or so, I have turned down the request more than half a dozen times to be the treasurer at the masjid that I frequent. That is because, while I am happy to be a Muslim, I do not have any desire to be a member of any Muslim organization. You don't have power, you don't have to worry about harming others. :)

quote:

Originally posted by khaleel:
(not referring to u Kaz)--just so there is no misunderstanding here)

quote:

Originally posted by ksazma:

quote:

Originally posted by André:
Now please tell me if you are going to carry out the wishes of your Koran which is to remove the heads and fingertips of infidels and why you choose the decision that you make.

No. I am not ever going to place myself in a position where I would feel the need or obligation to inflict any bodily harm on anyone.

Over the past 11 years or so, I have turned down the request more than half a dozen times to be the treasurer at the masjid that I frequent. That is because, while I am happy to be a Muslim, I do not have any desire to be a member of any Muslim organization. You don't have power, you don't have to worry about harming others. :)

quote:

Originally posted by khaleel:
While all of ouse arguing about Gawd, I think you should read the Jesus seminar work as well as bart Ehrman's. But as Sachedina says, we now wroship RELIGOIN rather than God...

quote:

Originally posted by khaleel:
Andre: could you please indicate this verse and why it is thus tranlated? Something seems strange..especially since in all of Islamic history--a truly bloody one admittedly--it would seem strange that people would follow the head removal and not the fingertips. If you are getting it from Answering Islam, remember polemic trans. are deliberately misleading. Note my question is directed to YOU and not to a jihadist (not referring to u Kaz)--just so there is no misunderstanding here).

quote:

Originally posted by ksazma:

quote:

Originally posted by André:
Now please tell me if you are going to carry out the wishes of your Koran which is to remove the heads and fingertips of infidels and why you choose the decision that you make.

No. I am not ever going to place myself in a position where I would feel the need or obligation to inflict any bodily harm on anyone.

Over the past 11 years or so, I have turned down the request more than half a dozen times to be the treasurer at the masjid that I frequent. That is because, while I am happy to be a Muslim, I do not have any desire to be a member of any Muslim organization. You don't have power, you don't have to worry about harming others. :)

quote:

Originally posted by André:

quote:

Originally posted by ksazma:

quote:

Originally posted by André:
Now please tell me if you are going to carry out the wishes of your Koran which is to remove the heads and fingertips of infidels and why you choose the decision that you make.

No. I am not ever going to place myself in a position where I would feel the need or obligation to inflict any bodily harm on anyone.

Over the past 11 years or so, I have turned down the request more than half a dozen times to be the treasurer at the masjid that I frequent. That is because, while I am happy to be a Muslim, I do not have any desire to be a member of any Muslim organization. You don't have power, you don't have to worry about harming others. :)

Are you say that you go against what the Koran dictates? How do you choose which verse to follow and which ones to ignore?

quote:

Originally posted by khaleel:
Rigght u are. His other books are as good. Also John spong's. Also Carl Ernst's "Following Muhammad". If anyone has input at a library, the last book is one that should be pushed for. Carl Ernst is the one who exposed Robert spencer in some ways for what the latter really is..a prevaricator

quote:

Originally posted by khaleel:
While all of ouse arguing about Gawd, I think you should read the Jesus seminar work as well as bart Ehrman's. But as Sachedina says, we now wroship RELIGOIN rather than God...

This is the same author of
"Misquoting Jesus - The Story Behind who Changed the Bible and Why"
as I indicated in the "Eye Opening Book" thread...

quote:

Originally posted by André:

quote:

Originally posted by khaleel:
Andre: could you please indicate this verse and why it is thus tranlated? Something seems strange..especially since in all of Islamic history--a truly bloody one admittedly--it would seem strange that people would follow the head removal and not the fingertips. If you are getting it from Answering Islam, remember polemic trans. are deliberately misleading. Note my question is directed to YOU and not to a jihadist (not referring to u Kaz)--just so there is no misunderstanding here).

quote:

Originally posted by ksazma:

quote:

Originally posted by André:
Now please tell me if you are going to carry out the wishes of your Koran which is to remove the heads and fingertips of infidels and why you choose the decision that you make.

No. I am not ever going to place myself in a position where I would feel the need or obligation to inflict any bodily harm on anyone.

Over the past 11 years or so, I have turned down the request more than half a dozen times to be the treasurer at the masjid that I frequent. That is because, while I am happy to be a Muslim, I do not have any desire to be a member of any Muslim organization. You don't have power, you don't have to worry about harming others. :)

I was refering to the verse below. I couldn't tell you why it's translated the way it is as I'm not versed in Arabic and how it's translated to English. It's not taken from Answering Islam but from the USC site which I was made to understand is acceptable as a fairly good Koran translation.

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/008.qmt.html

Koran 008.012
YUSUFALI: Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instil terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them."
PICKTHAL: When thy Lord inspired the angels, (saying): I am with you. So make those who believe stand firm. I will throw fear into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Then smite the necks and smite of them each finger.
SHAKIR: When your Lord revealed to the angels: I am with you, therefore make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them.

quote:

Originally posted by André:
Are you saying that you go against what the Koran dictates? How do you choose which verses to follow and which ones to ignore?

quote:

Originally posted by khaleel:
Thanks bud. U are right...that site is a good reliable translation. The final word in the verse "banaan" means "digits"..fingers and toes. Then the question: when? Notice that it is directed to the angels. It is an exhortation to the Muslim soldiers on the battlefield that their enemy is onTwo interpretations:
1. That the enemy is one who is totally lost...they are headless in that the angels have struck them there..they don't think, so expect no rational thought from them. Their hands and their feet..without fingers and toes, a warrior is useless...he can't hold his sword/bow/spear..and he can't hold the ground...so the enemy is one that is open to defeat. It is to give courage to the Muslims ONLY ON THE BATTLEFIELD AGAINST THE POLYTHEIST PAGANS OF M's TIME.
2The more sufi interpretation: This is solely an angelic task: Just as how in the bible god says he has hardened the heart of pharoah...so here god has ordered the angels to take away the intellect of the enemy, and their actions (done by hand and foot).

The text and normal reading indicates 1 as the better..and the Muslim warriors saw it thus..which is why they never took fingers and toes. The word does not mean fingertips...that was put there by English speakers who could not find the classical term of 'banaan" and wanted to show it had nothing to do with literal speech.
2.

quote:

Originally posted by André:

quote:

Originally posted by khaleel:
Andre: could you please indicate this verse and why it is thus tranlated? Something seems strange..especially since in all of Islamic history--a truly bloody one admittedly--it would seem strange that people would follow the head removal and not the fingertips. If you are getting it from Answering Islam, remember polemic trans. are deliberately misleading. Note my question is directed to YOU and not to a jihadist (not referring to u Kaz)--just so there is no misunderstanding here).

quote:

Originally posted by ksazma:

quote:

Originally posted by André:
Now please tell me if you are going to carry out the wishes of your Koran which is to remove the heads and fingertips of infidels and why you choose the decision that you make.

No. I am not ever going to place myself in a position where I would feel the need or obligation to inflict any bodily harm on anyone.

Over the past 11 years or so, I have turned down the request more than half a dozen times to be the treasurer at the masjid that I frequent. That is because, while I am happy to be a Muslim, I do not have any desire to be a member of any Muslim organization. You don't have power, you don't have to worry about harming others. :)

I was refering to the verse below. I couldn't tell you why it's translated the way it is as I'm not versed in Arabic and how it's translated to English. It's not taken from Answering Islam but from the USC site which I was made to understand is acceptable as a fairly good Koran translation.

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/008.qmt.html

Koran 008.012
YUSUFALI: Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instil terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them."
PICKTHAL: When thy Lord inspired the angels, (saying): I am with you. So make those who believe stand firm. I will throw fear into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Then smite the necks and smite of them each finger.
SHAKIR: When your Lord revealed to the angels: I am with you, therefore make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them.

quote:

American foreign policy may have perpetrated many injustices against Muslims, but its gift of scholars and scholarship to Islam and Muslims that has allowed Islamic thinking to re-emerge and thrive is indeed priceless.

quote:

Originally posted by André:

quote:

Originally posted by khaleel:
Rigght u are. His other books are as good. Also John spong's. Also Carl Ernst's "Following Muhammad". If anyone has input at a library, the last book is one that should be pushed for. Carl Ernst is the one who exposed Robert spencer in some ways for what the latter really is..a prevaricator

quote:

Originally posted by khaleel:
While all of ouse arguing about Gawd, I think you should read the Jesus seminar work as well as bart Ehrman's. But as Sachedina says, we now wroship RELIGOIN rather than God...

This is the same author of
"Misquoting Jesus - The Story Behind who Changed the Bible and Why"
as I indicated in the "Eye Opening Book" thread...

quote:

All alyou raas want me go a de battam. How many r******* times must i tell you peeple that man fi go pun tap. Alright, alright, since D2, Jansher, Villo and now U, plus Reds tell me..I will attempt to stay pun bottom (is that an oxymoron..pun bottom?)

quote:

Originally posted by Reds:

i like it pon top...take that which ever way you want to :)

quote:

Originally posted by Sunil:

quote:

Originally posted by Reds:

i like it pon top...take that which ever way you want to :)

I like you pon tap too :-))

quote:

Originally posted by Sunil:

quote:

Originally posted by Reds:

i like it pon top...take that which ever way you want to :)

I like you pon tap too :-))

quote:

Originally posted by khaleel:

quote:

Originally posted by Sunil:

quote:

Originally posted by Reds:

i like it pon top...take that which ever way you want to :)

I like you pon tap too :-))

That was mankind's way of getting gravity to help him.

quote:

Originally posted by ksazma:
I always held that your habit of posting at the top was better since it showed the most current response first. Now why did you have to go change?

quote:

Originally posted by khaleel:

quote:

Originally posted by Sunil:

quote:

Originally posted by Reds:

i like it pon top...take that which ever way you want to :)

I like you pon tap too :-))

That was mankind's way of getting gravity to help him.

quote:

Originally posted by khaleel:
Several people advised me to. Some Muslims would say that was shura decision!!!!