quote:

Whereas the Qur'an reports Moses's address to the Israelites as "O my people! Enter the Holy Land that God has assigned unto you,"[45] this Saudi version twists the verse with modern politics, writing, "O my people! Enter the holy land (Palestine)."

So has the Saudis left out some words or is the original text open to interpretations?

Nah..the Saudis PUT IN words. In honesty, my sentence is misleading..because they put the words in brackets. But to a JEw, Palestine is a bad word since it was the roman name given to the place when they were chased out. The Qur'an also does NOT say Palestine since we know that historically, what Moses is talking about is Israel. For the saudis to put this word there is to play a psychological game with the non-arab or uneducated Muslim. The person will only see the incendiary "Palestine" and overlook the historical fact that Moses could NOT have been referring to any land by that name.

Text not open to interpretation. ALL the exegetes have only one take on it. That GOd decreed it.

quote:

Originally posted by khaleel:
Nah..the Saudis PUT IN words. In honesty, my sentence is misleading..because they put the words in brackets. But to a JEw, Palestine is a bad word since it was the roman name given to the place when they were chased out. The Qur'an also does NOT say Palestine since we know that historically, what Moses is talking about is Israel. For the saudis to put this word there is to play a psychological game with the non-arab or uneducated Muslim. The person will only see the incendiary "Palestine" and overlook the historical fact that Moses could NOT have been referring to any land by that name.

The Jewish texts refers to Judah and Samaria and other boundaries of land given to the 12 tribes, does the Koran or Hadith etc define the boundaries of Israel or give any specific location of the assigned Holy Land?

Hah. That one is a biggee. The exegetes defined the boundaries in a manner that would have confounded some of the modern Muslims: Jordan, Syria, Iraq, Palestine....the Quran simply says the land. It is to be assumed that it would go with the biblical delineations...but hte exegetes went further.

quote:

Originally posted by Sunil:
The Jewish texts refers to Judah and Samaria and other boundaries of land given to the 12 tribes, does the Koran or Hadith etc define the boundaries of Israel or give any specific location of the assigned Holy Land?

So I guess that Arberry and Asad are the way to go. Although I have a copy of the Muhsin Khan translation, I never really cared for it. I will try to get a copy of Arberry. They have them at Barnes & Noble.

BTW, that was a damn lang article to read but nonetheless, very informative.

Arberry is NOT arranged properly. CAIR gives a really nice Asad volume. If you go for it, I would suggest sending a donation as it is really expensive for them. The one from London...I forgot the name...I cited him already for lil "m' and big M islam...but he has no arabic in it. It would be better to get a CD of ALIM. If you need a copy lemme know. In private mail, send me an address. It has Yusuf Ali, Pickthall. And you can always go on line.

quote:

Originally posted by ksazma:
So I guess that Arberry and Asad are the way to go. Although I have a copy of the Muhsin Khan translation, I never really cared for it. I will try to get a copy of Arberry. They have them at Barnes & Noble.

BTW, that was a damn lang article to read but nonetheless, very informative.

I do have the Alim software. Plus I am an Islamicity member so I do have sources. I will get the Asad translation. Thanks anyways.

quote:

Originally posted by khaleel:
Arberry is NOT arranged properly. CAIR gives a really nice Asad volume. If you go for it, I would suggest sending a donation as it is really expensive for them. The one from London...I forgot the name...I cited him already for lil "m' and big M islam...but he has no arabic in it. It would be better to get a CD of ALIM. If you need a copy lemme know. In private mail, send me an address. It has Yusuf Ali, Pickthall. And you can always go on line.

quote:

Originally posted by ksazma:
So I guess that Arberry and Asad are the way to go. Although I have a copy of the Muhsin Khan translation, I never really cared for it. I will try to get a copy of Arberry. They have them at Barnes & Noble.

BTW, that was a damn lang article to read but nonetheless, very informative.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: ksazma,

quote:

Originally posted by ksazma:
I do have the Alim software. Plus I am an Islamicity member so I do have sources. I will get the Asad translation. Thanks anyways.

quote:

Originally posted by khaleel:
Arberry is NOT arranged properly. CAIR gives a really nice Asad volume. If you go for it, I would suggest sending a donation as it is really expensive for them. The one from London...I forgot the name...I cited him already for lil "m' and big M islam...but he has no arabic in it. It would be better to get a CD of ALIM. If you need a copy lemme know. In private mail, send me an address. It has Yusuf Ali, Pickthall. And you can always go on line.

quote:

Originally posted by ksazma:
So I guess that Arberry and Asad are the way to go. Although I have a copy of the Muhsin Khan translation, I never really cared for it. I will try to get a copy of Arberry. They have them at Barnes & Noble.

BTW, that was a damn lang article to read but nonetheless, very informative.

Those arguing about translations are still stuck in the stone age. All translations are now online including tafsir etc. so its no longer a sticking point.


Dig out the $300.00 and buy yourself the nine volumes of Ibn Kathir.

Its worth every cent.

quote:

Originally posted by Abu Jihad:
Dig out the $300.00 and buy yourself the nine volumes of Ibn Kathir.

Its worth every cent.

I already have some of them. :)

Ksa, its on sale now for $150.00

cant beat this although I bought it in Saudi for around $100.00

http://www.dar-us-salam.com/store/main.mvc?Screen=PROD&...nge_low=&range_high=

quote:

Originally posted by Abu Jihad:
Ksa, its on sale now for $150.00

cant beat this although I bought it in Saudi for around $100.00

http://www.dar-us-salam.com/store/main.mvc?Screen=PROD&...nge_low=&range_high=

shukran

Kaz
you will be better off getting, instead of all of the medieval tafsir, the works of Muhammad al Ghazali and Taha alAlwani. THe medieval tafsir were done by men who in many cases had cut themselves off from the sources of their predecessors and their tafsirs often carry political and creedal presuppositions that influence what they read into the text rather than what the text itself says. On top of that, if you are reading translations of tafsirs, you are truly courting problems. If you live near to a university, check out Index Islamicus for the various researches done. In Toronto, you have Walid Saleh whose thesis is ground breaking...

quote:

Originally posted by ksazma:

quote:

Originally posted by Abu Jihad:
Dig out the $300.00 and buy yourself the nine volumes of Ibn Kathir.

Its worth every cent.

I already have some of them. :)

Will do. Thanks.

quote:

Originally posted by khaleel:
Kaz
you will be better off getting, instead of all of the medieval tafsir, the works of Muhammad al Ghazali and Taha alAlwani. THe medieval tafsir were done by men who in many cases had cut themselves off from the sources of their predecessors and their tafsirs often carry political and creedal presuppositions that influence what they read into the text rather than what the text itself says. On top of that, if you are reading translations of tafsirs, you are truly courting problems. If you live near to a university, check out Index Islamicus for the various researches done. In Toronto, you have Walid Saleh whose thesis is ground breaking

Also Mahmoud Ayoub has "the quran and its interpreters"

quote:

Originally posted by ksazma:
Will do. Thanks.

quote:

Originally posted by khaleel:
Kaz
you will be better off getting, instead of all of the medieval tafsir, the works of Muhammad al Ghazali and Taha alAlwani. THe medieval tafsir were done by men who in many cases had cut themselves off from the sources of their predecessors and their tafsirs often carry political and creedal presuppositions that influence what they read into the text rather than what the text itself says. On top of that, if you are reading translations of tafsirs, you are truly courting problems. If you live near to a university, check out Index Islamicus for the various researches done. In Toronto, you have Walid Saleh whose thesis is ground breaking

quote:

Originally posted by khaleel:
Kaz
you will be better off getting, instead of all of the medieval tafsir, the works of Muhammad al Ghazali and Taha alAlwani. THe medieval tafsir were done by men who in many cases had cut themselves off from the sources of their predecessors and their tafsirs often carry political and creedal presuppositions that influence what they read into the text rather than what the text itself says. On top of that, if you are reading translations of tafsirs, you are truly courting problems. If you live near to a university, check out Index Islamicus for the various researches done. In Toronto, you have Walid Saleh whose thesis is ground breaking...

quote:

Originally posted by ksazma:

quote:

Originally posted by Abu Jihad:
Dig out the $300.00 and buy yourself the nine volumes of Ibn Kathir.

Its worth every cent.

I already have some of them. :)

It seems like Islam was left to languish in the dark for 1400 years until our resident scholar was sent to us as a modern day reformer. He has no confidence in the rightly guided successors, the Imams of Fiqh, the collectors of hadith (Bukhari and Muslim), or Ibn Taimiyah and his student Ibn Kathir (the most authoritative figures on tafsir).

Once you discount all of these intellectual gems what does that leave us with?

I guess his forward thinking visionary status is filled with an abundance of biases and prejudices which he exhorts as intellectual superiority.

I do not have issues with differing opinions but it becomes monotonous when the distinguished scholar tries so hard to promote his personal agenda.

Andre
is your question from another thread answered?ENd of story.