I am asking a question and will stay out. It is not polemic, but based n the early concept of adoptionism.
Later Xity accepted the concept of sonship, throwing out earlier constructs. That is a given.
In Matt 23:9, Jesus orders that no man should call another father since the Father is in Heaven. ALSO: Blessed are the peacemakers for they shall be called the children of God...
Does this, for more secular interpretations of Xity lead to a possibly new interpretation of "fatherhood" and "sonship."?
Please...can we NOT have Islamic interpretations as I am NOT concerned with what the Qur'an or Hadith say IN THIS CASE? Thx. Pax.

quote:

Originally posted by dara shikoh:
I am asking a question and will stay out. It is not polemic, but based n the early concept of adoptionism.
Later Xity accepted the concept of sonship, throwing out earlier constructs. That is a given.
In Matt 23:9, Jesus orders that no man should call another father since the Father is in Heaven. ALSO: Blessed are the peacemakers for they shall be called the children of God...
Does this, for more secular interpretations of Xity lead to a possibly new interpretation of "fatherhood" and "sonship."?
Please...can we NOT have Islamic interpretations as I am NOT concerned with what the Qur'an or Hadith say IN THIS CASE? Thx. Pax.

is this one of your studies for Muhammadanism ...lol

Bhai..I also teach abrahamic religions...so I get all the arguments. U should see RC's and Protestants/evangelists dis each other...makes the shias and sunnis look like pacifists.

quote:

Originally posted by dara shikoh:
Bhai..I also teach abrahamic religions...so I get all the arguments. U should see RC's and Protestants/evangelists dis each other...makes the shias and sunnis look like pacifists.

so do/did you teach zororastrian?

quote:

Originally posted by Pink Panther:

quote:

Originally posted by dara shikoh:
Bhai..I also teach abrahamic religions...so I get all the arguments. U should see RC's and Protestants/evangelists dis each other...makes the shias and sunnis look like pacifists.

so do/did you teach zororastrian?

I don't consider it abrahamic. I touch on it in world religions, but given that it is not big on the american scene, leave students assigned readings. I touch on it in Judaism and Islam when i, from a secular view, show the incorporation of Zoroastrian myths in both later religions. The concept of angels, according to academic theory is one. The Islamic hadith theory of crossing a bridge to get to heaven is another.

quote:

Originally posted by dara shikoh:

I don't consider it abrahamic. I touch on it in world religions, but given that it is not big on the american scene, leave students assigned readings. I touch on it in Judaism and Islam when i, from a secular view, show the incorporation of Zoroastrian myths in both later religions. The concept of angels, according to academic theory is one. The Islamic hadith theory of crossing a bridge to get to heaven is another.

Zoroastrian was the first religion to teaches about heaven and hell. .... so much for myth.

Do the Jews believe in heaven and hell?

Zoroastrian was the first religion to teaches about heaven and hell. .... so much for myth.[/QUOTE]
"First" is problematic. We know the BEFORE the first exodus, the Bible does speak about heavenly imagery. did the biblical stuff come from Z? We don't know. But we know that AFTER return, a lot of images that are definitely z. get into the hebrew imagery. Don't forget that we don't want to fall into "parallelomania"...

quote:

Originally posted by dara shikoh:
Bhai..I also teach abrahamic religions...so I get all the arguments. U should see RC's and Protestants/evangelists dis each other...makes the shias and sunnis look like pacifists.

seriously, this is an overstatement!

So we hwve to trow the saying honor thy mother and thy father out, or is it really out of context in the book.

quote:

Originally posted by dara shikoh:
Zoroastrian was the first religion to teaches about heaven and hell. .... so much for myth.

"First" is problematic. We know the BEFORE the first exodus, the Bible does speak about heavenly imagery. did the biblical stuff come from Z? We don't know. But we know that AFTER return, a lot of images that are definitely z. get into the hebrew imagery. Don't forget that we don't want to fall into "parallelomania"...[/QUOTE]

Bhai Dara aren't there parallels and similarities in Judaic,Biblic,& Koranic statements in comparative reserches by the Theologians debaters, their stand on religious ideals as perpetuated by the various sectarians...to the masses...notwithstanding that many statements was handed down by Z...
as well similarly there are many parallels and similarities with Vedic statements & Zend Avesta in comparative reserches on several issues..names for gods, rituals...

quote:

Originally posted by bird:
So we hwve to trow the saying honor thy mother and thy father out, or is it really out of context in the book.

Bird, am no skullar but i think we should not throw out the mother father ideal.. as i think that the highest earthly honour is for mother and father. on this i agree with the bible take that we should honour them plus next in line should be teacher as it is the teacher who nurtures one's love for learning to become a scholar of the highest calibre. Salaam!

quote:

Originally posted by RQ:
Bird, am no skullar but i think we should not throw out the mother father ideal.. as i think that the highest earthly honour is for mother and father. on this i agree with the bible take that we should honour them plus next in line should be teacher as it is the teacher who nurtures one's love for learning to become a scholar of the highest calibre. Salaam!

If u mudder tek a black man pon you fadder head, will u still honor she?

Y'all too damn wutliss. ICIP: u are right about overstatement in a global context. in my classroom: no. In CA, some Evangelists claim the RC's are not christian even..and often anathemize even christian professors. The Muslims don't do that in my classroom....to be honest, they avoid my classroom to begin with.

quote:

Originally posted by RQ:

quote:

Originally posted by dara shikoh:
Zoroastrian was the first religion to teaches about heaven and hell. .... so much for myth.

"First" is problematic. We know the BEFORE the first exodus, the Bible does speak about heavenly imagery. did the biblical stuff come from Z? We don't know. But we know that AFTER return, a lot of images that are definitely z. get into the hebrew imagery. Don't forget that we don't want to fall into "parallelomania"...

Bhai Dara aren't there parallels and similarities in Judaic,Biblic,& Koranic statements in comparative reserches by the Theologians debaters, their stand on religious ideals as perpetuated by the various sectarians...to the masses...notwithstanding that many statements was handed down by Z...
as well similarly there are many parallels and similarities with Vedic statements & Zend Avesta in comparative reserches on several issues..names for gods, rituals...[/QUOTE]
true. Similarities in ethics and stories are to be expected. Parallels same. But to ascribe provenance to one simply becuase it is older is not simple; for sometimes the seemingly older story is based on an oral tradition that is skewed or imported from the younger tradition
Abraham Geiger made this mistake..he attreibuted a lot of Islamic material to judaism..only to find out later that a lot of the jewish stores were taken from later islam, then retold in a hebraic manner.

quote:

Originally posted by dara shikoh:
Y'all too damn wutliss. ICIP: u are right about overstatement in a global context. in my classroom: no. In CA, some Evangelists claim the RC's are not christian even..and often anathemize even christian professors. The Muslims don't do that in my classroom....to be honest, they avoid my classroom to begin with.

I commend dem for this...it might be better for them :):):)

U is anudda wutliss rass.:-)) Dem afraid of exams..I challenge them and them want to use the "muslim" card. Don't work. ONe gyal tried to preach in my class. I don't tolerate it from Christians, Jews and I will definitely not permit it from Muslims..who often ;come up with the most nonsensical garbage to spout.
Ai..Chief need bizness..send some roti with his courier company nuh. I can use them for da'wa.

I notice nobody chose to answer my initial question. Interesting. Poor Jesus.

quote:

Originally posted by dara shikoh:
Y'all too damn wutliss. ICIP: u are right about overstatement in a global context. in my classroom: no. In CA, some Evangelists claim the RC's are not christian even..and often anathemize even christian professors. The Muslims don't do that in my classroom....to be honest, they avoid my classroom to begin with.

how is this different from some muslims claim that shiites, Ahmadiyya etc are not muslims? I dont even have to go to CA to find out ... I just have to look at this forum.

Name names please!(:-))

quote:

Originally posted by Terry Ishmael:
Name names please!(:-))

Terry said shiites aint muslims

hmm..interesting further. If I had asked a question on the Qur'an, despite the fact it is in arabic, several non muslims would have chimed in with opinions. I ask a question of the Testament, and I see nothing. That in fact says more than it does not.

quote:

Originally posted by Pink Panther:

quote:

Originally posted by Terry Ishmael:
Name names please!(:-))

Terry said shiites aint muslims

He also said everybody wuz muslims! (:-))

quote:

Originally posted by dara shikoh:
hmm..interesting further. If I had asked a question on the Qur'an, despite the fact it is in arabic, several non muslims would have chimed in with opinions. I ask a question of the Testament, and I see nothing. That in fact says more than it does not.

its the power of thoughts .... you are a symbol of your thoughts. Its all in your mind. lol

quote:

Originally posted by dara shikoh:
hmm..interesting further. If I had asked a question on the Qur'an, despite the fact it is in arabic, several non muslims would have chimed in with opinions. I ask a question of the Testament, and I see nothing. That in fact says more than it does not.

You slow...bai. Though you would have figured this out by now...

You slow...bai. Though you would have figured this out by now...[/QUOTE]
Not slow bhai...just trying to give the benefit of a doubt. DOn't forget to read "crescent between cross and star"...