This Sermon was delivered on the Ninth Day of Dhul Hijjah 10 A.H in the Uranah Valley of mount Arafat

"O People, lend me an attentive ear, for I don't know whether, after this year, I shall ever be amongst you again. Therefore listen to what I am saying to you carefully and take these words to those who could not be present here today.

O People, just as you regard this month, this day, this city as Sacred, so regard the life and property of every Muslim as a sacred trust. Return the goods entrusted to you to their rightful owners. Hurt no one so that no one may hurt you. Remember that you will indeed meet your Lord, and that He will indeed reckon your deeds. Allah has forbidden you to take usury (Interest), therefore all interest obligation shall henceforth be waived...

Beware of Satan, for your safety of your religion. He has lost all hope that he will ever be able to lead you astray in big things, so beware of following him in small things.

O People, it is true that you have certain rights with regard to your women, but they also have right over you. If they abide by your right then to them belongs the right to be fed and clothed in kindness. Do treat your women well and be kind to them for they are your partners and comitted helpers. And it is your right that they do not make friends with any one of whom you do not approve, as well as never to commit adultery.

O People, listen to me in earnest, whorship Allah, say your five daily prayers (Salah), fast during the month of Ramadhan, and give your wealth in Zakat. Perform Hajj if you can afford to. You know that every Muslim is the brother of another Muslim. You are all equal. Nobody has superiority over other except by piety and good action. Remember, one day you will appear before Allah and answer for your deeds. So beware, do not astray from the path of righteousness after I am gone.

O People, no prophet or apostle will come after me and no new faith will be born. Reason well, therefore, O People, and understand my words which I convey to you. I leave behind me two things, the Qur'an and my example, the Sunnah and if you follow these you will never go astray.

All those who listen to me shall pass on my words to others and those to others again; and may the last ones understand my words better than those who listen to me direcly.

Be my witness oh Allah that I have conveyed your message to your people."

Kaz" it is a beautiful sermon. But ACADEMIC..as opposed to faith..experts have carefully analyzed it and figured that it serves the purpose of many later creedal formulations and that its reliability is therefore questionable. Most of its elements are in the Qur'an. Those that are not serve creed.
BTW, Kaz, Chief, superM and the rest: I listened to Karen Armstrong last weekend..she is a genuinely good soul and if you don't have her books, get them...or borrow them...

quote:

Originally posted by dara shikoh:
Kaz" it is a beautiful sermon. But ACADEMIC..as opposed to faith..experts have carefully analyzed it and figured that it serves the purpose of many later creedal formulations and that its reliability is therefore questionable. Most of its elements are in the Qur'an. Those that are not serve creed.
BTW, Kaz, Chief, superM and the rest: I listened to Karen Armstrong last weekend..she is a genuinely good soul and if you don't have her books, get them...or borrow them...

Thanks Dara. You know how it is with me. I don't embrace the ahadiths the same way that I do the Qur'an. So I appreciate your advice. Concerning Armstrong, I have and read one of her books "A History of God". She is very objective. Thanks again.

She also has "holy war" out. Good one. coming from a former nun, it puts the crusaders on the cross.
BTW: Sayyid Hosein Nasr...listened to him too. PHilosophy expert. Excellent. His books are also good, but based on the material he speaks about, I assume you will already have come to the same conclusions...

quote:

Originally posted by dara shikoh:
She also has "holy war" out. Good one. coming from a former nun, it puts the crusaders on the cross.
BTW: Sayyid Hosein Nasr...listened to him too. PHilosophy expert. Excellent. His books are also good, but based on the material he speaks about, I assume you will already have come to the same conclusions...

now, whats the difference with the likes of Karen, Wafa Sultan, V.S. Naipaul etc ? You put a lot of stock in Karen even though she is not a scholar. She is a journalist/writer. Not a scholar. You as a scholar would know that Karen books have errors and omissions. I leave that for you to decide if that is true or not as a specialist in the field. While you on the subject on crusaders .... Karen is consider to be an islamic crusaders.

V.S Naipaul said in his book that islam has calamitous effect on converted peoples ... he went on to say that islam want to wipe out ancestral culture and history. Now how is Naipaul different from Sutan or a Karen?

The coin still has two sides.

Point taken. Karen is in a different class. Why so? Because as a nun, she studied theology inside out...and she writes about the studies she did. Naipaul is NOt a religion scholar, and comes with vitriol of out his own problems. Wafa Sultan...if this is the one to whom you refer...I know the "inside: story of who initially financed her (they are among some of my associates by the way)--and have now taken a jump out of her way beause she talks crap. Initially, they were happy when she dumped on islam...and she was good..but then she went too far..dumping on monotheism and god..that they could not have.
As for KA being a crusader FOR islam..anyone who writes anything good about islam will be seen as going against the grain. Problem is I met her last weekend...she did quote scholars and I did put names to her and theories. But you are right, she does misquote and come with info that is at best conjecture. Yet, she is way above the other two you mentioned. Although not in Naipaul's class as a writer.
Incidentally, when I recommended her to Kaz, it was simply as easy reading. I would not use her books except as recommended reading, although in lower level classes, i could use SOME as a text, especially when she writes of Xity, since she is doing so from nunnery school.
Re naipaul's statement about wiping out ancestral culture: he showed his lack of anthropological know how (an integral part of any univer. degree in religoin) by this statement. What islam did was so totally incorporate some cultural ideas that they came to pass as islamic: for example the purdah system is persian, the art of dance and qaside from persia and ancient india, the idea of legalism from Iraqian judaism, the idea of separation btewen sexes from Persia....the idea of tradition from iraqi judaism...
but nonetheless, you are right in the general idea of the coin having two sides. I have opposed some of KA's material in terms of the ease with which she accepts it. Much of it because she sees the nasty side of the church in rejecting others and creating lies to do so.

BTW: I just picked up a book 'tent of abraham". Written by rabbi and academic: and the writer of the foreword is Karen A. my point? She is welcomed among the academic community...this is not accorded to either naipaul or wafa. In fact, the latter would not be given the time of day, and the former...I just know he is not seen as being objective or scholarly.
ANother person who is NOT an academic scholar of islam is Jamal badawi..who is by training an economist...but who has read deeply and is invited to several academic conferences. IN fact, he taught Islam at St Mary's for a while...
ON a personal basis, KA is more objective that JB...

DS, I dont't see Karen any different from Wafa or a Brigitte Gabriel etc. I don't know how objective or unbiased these folks can be, especially when they are misquoting or using religious literature to suit their agenda.

They appease some folks when they write/say something we want to hear. Now, what made someone a religious scholar? Studying religion? I dont think someone can be a religious scholar without studying sociology. One may have a degree from a religious institution, but does this give that person the authority to speak on a behalf of all? Now, if only the scholars are experts, what are the great souls from prior era that set the foundation for us today?

Now going back to Karen, Wafa etc ..... you said that Wafa was financed by others. This is true with many folks who wrote favorable books on islam as well. Prof. Keith Moore was one of them .. the Saudis paid him. George Galloway also spoke out and a lot of muslims including some on gni hail this fellow. But George was paid with arab money. So how we trust any one of these folks to be unbiased?

It seems that we are seduced with things that are favorable written or said even though they are not facts.

quote:

Originally posted by Aragorn:
DS, I dont't see Karen any different from Wafa or a Brigitte Gabriel etc. I don't know how objective or unbiased these folks can be, especially when they are misquoting or using religious literature to suit their agenda.

They appease some folks when they write/say something we want to hear. Now, what made someone a religious scholar? Studying religion? I dont think someone can be a religious scholar without studying sociology. One may have a degree from a religious institution, but does this give that person the authority to speak on a behalf of all? Now, if only the scholars are experts, what are the great souls from prior era that set the foundation for us today?

Now going back to Karen, Wafa etc ..... you said that Wafa was financed by others. This is true with many folks who wrote favorable books on islam as well. Prof. Keith Moore was one of them .. the Saudis paid him. George Galloway also spoke out and a lot of muslims including some on gni hail this fellow. But George was paid with arab money. So how we trust any one of these folks to be unbiased?

It seems that we are seduced with things that are favorable written or said even though they are not facts.

There is a diff between a scholar and a person revered. I do agree with you re sociology, which is why I have quoted malinokwski, weber, strauss etc. Karen as I pointed out studied in the nunnery..and she is recognized by academics as being a scholar. Which is why she writes forewords. Galloway is a political figure and if Arab money funds him, then so too Israeli money funds other speakers. But G does not write on Islam. Wafa was indeed financed by those with whom I have an association and I know their agenda which was to denigrate. Keith Moore, in allhonesty I don't know the name...if he were funded and is an academic is just like any other academic who gets grants. This stigma of being funded by saudis etc..when it comes under academe is a big mask to cover up what OTHERS would like written. HOw come it is that when there are US funded, or Israeli funded scholars, this does not come up?
Karen has not written all that is favorable about islam, and on this board, a lot of things that I say about the traditional practice is not favorable. ONe looks for objectivity. And that she has. What makes someone a religion scholar (note we use the term religiON scholar instead of religiouS..one is a subject, the other an adjective as you well know)..is the study of several related humanities subjects and the reading of texts in the light of language, anthro etc...This is why one differentiates between a SEMINARY and a UNIVERSITY. this is why for example, I would argue strenuously against a graduate say from dar ul uloom, whereas I would think carefully before arguing with anyone from McGill, UfT or Chicago...
Ther are several favorable books in islam, written by non funded people (carl Ernst) comes to mind. Cantwell Smith is another of yore. Why is it that when anyone says anything good about islam, one has to check? THis is polemic at its worst.
As for being seduced by nice things that are not facts...as humans we are all gullible I guess. But I am trained in texts...so it is difficult to get me with that. Which is why when I first came on GNI, I got into it with my coreligionists...

quote:

Originally posted by dara shikoh:
Which is why when I first came on GNI, I got into it with my coreligionists...

Meh kno :))

But you have proven your worth.

The sign of the friend of God is that he has three qualities: a generosity like that of the ocean, a compassion like that of the sun, and a humility like that of the earth.

-Bayazid in 'Attar, "Tadhkirat"

quote:

Originally posted by ksazma:

quote:

Originally posted by dara shikoh:
Which is why when I first came on GNI, I got into it with my coreligionists...

Meh kno :))

But you have proven your worth.

Dara is a good guy. The site need folks like him. Sometimes he gets carried away with opinions and not facts ... but we all are guilty of it.

quote:

Originally posted by Aragorn:
Dara is a good guy. The site need folks like him. Sometimes he gets carried away with opinions and not facts ... but we all are guilty of it.

dara has all the mannerism of an old school Guyanese teacher. I had the opportunity of seeing him share the stage with dignitaries of other religions and nationalities and I thought that he outdid them.

For Muslim men and women, for believing men and women, for devout men and women, for true men and women, for men and women who are patient and constant, for men and women who humble themselves, for men and women who give in Charity, for men and women who fast (and deny themselves), for men and women who guard their chastity, and for men and women who engage much in Allah's praise, for them has Allah prepared forgiveness and great reward. - Qur'an 33:35

Bhais..me head swelling heah. Argy..I will even let that one about opinions pass. why so? The lines of definition between fact and opinion in humanities are too porous. which is why references and the credentials of the references are of importance.

Seek a true friend,
for a friend seeks the benefit of a friend,
Do good to the people for the sake of God
or for the peace of your own soul
that you may always see what is pure
and save your heart from the darkness of hate.

-Rumi, "Mathnawi"

Surah Luqmân (31) verse 10:

"He created the heavens without any pillars that ye can see; He set on the earth mountains standing firm, lest it should shake with you; and He scattered through it beasts of all kinds. We send down rain from the sky, and produce on the earth every kind of noble creature, in pairs." Qur'an 31:10

A man came to Allah's Apostle and said, "O Allah's Apostle! Who is more entitled to be treated with the best companionship by me?" The Prophet said, "Your mother." The man said. "Who is next?" The Prophet said, "Your mother." The man further said, "Who is next?" The Prophet said, "Your mother." The man asked for the fourth time, "Who is next?" The Prophet said, "Your father." Volume 8, Book 73, Number 2: Narrated Abu Huraira: