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André

Location: Rite Hay
Registered:: January 09, 2003
Posts: 17242
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quote:
Originally posted by Aragorn:
quote:
Originally posted by ksazma:

I speak only from what I know. The Shiites use the same Qur'an that I do and they believe that it is 100% from Allah. Nothing added or deleted.


the shiites believe that the quran was fabricated. Please check the shiite belief and argument on this subject.


Many shiites believe that the Koran is not 100% authentic. Don't even try to deny that Ksaz. There are many articles written on this subject.
<Reds>
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quote:
Originally posted by André:
quote:
Originally posted by Reds:
quote:
Originally posted by André:
but is why all dese religious threads showin up pun de social. like de admin fallin dung pun de wuk. :D


we working on it...there is a glitch somewhere...

how you doing?


i deh good. :)

washin meh clothes dem tonite. u?


sorry for the late reply...i was runnig on the treadmill...i preparing for some meetings tomorrow... :)
ksazma
Member
Location: Every action is judged by intention - Muhammad
Registered:: April 04, 2005
Posts: 9769
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quote:
Originally posted by Aragorn:
shiites differ from other muslim sects not only on social and political ... but on the quran as well.


Only way that we can progress on this is if you provide me with a copy of their Qur'an that I can compare to mine. I can easily provide you with Bibles that are different from each others. Like the Catholic one that has 73 books while the non-Catholic one that has only 66 books. But then again, the non-Catholics see the Catholics as non-Christians. A dangerous path that many Muslims travel even here on these BB seeing other Muslims as non-Muslims because they are Ahmadiyya for instance. I don't see Muslims as non-Muslims just like I don't see Catholics as non-Christians. If they say that they are, I regard them as such. Judgement is with God alone.
ksazma
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Location: Every action is judged by intention - Muhammad
Registered:: April 04, 2005
Posts: 9769
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quote:
Originally posted by André:
Many shiites believe that the Koran is not 100% authentic. Don't even try to deny that Ksaz. There are many articles written on this subject.


See reply to Argy. Let us look at the Qur'an that the Shiites are using. That is the best way to determine if theirs is different from mine.
Pink Panther
Active Member
Location: Aragorn
Registered:: June 23, 2006
Posts: 10474
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quote:
Originally posted by ksazma:
quote:
Originally posted by André:
Many shiites believe that the Koran is not 100% authentic. Don't even try to deny that Ksaz. There are many articles written on this subject.


See reply to Argy. Let us look at the Qur'an that the Shiites are using. That is the best way to determine if theirs is different from mine.


the shiites added added verses into their quran .... Surah of Wilaya and Nurayn. Your quran have these verses?
ksazma
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Location: Every action is judged by intention - Muhammad
Registered:: April 04, 2005
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quote:
Originally posted by Aragorn:
the shiites added added verses into their quran .... Surah of Wilaya and Nurayn. Your quran have these verses?


You have lots of contacts Mikey. Get me a copy so we can evaluate it. Thanks.
Pink Panther
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Location: Aragorn
Registered:: June 23, 2006
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quote:
Originally posted by ksazma:
quote:
Originally posted by Aragorn:
the shiites added added verses into their quran .... Surah of Wilaya and Nurayn. Your quran have these verses?


You have lots of contacts Mikey. Get me a copy so we can evaluate it. Thanks.


we can at least evaluate yours .... are these verses in your quran?
ksazma
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Location: Every action is judged by intention - Muhammad
Registered:: April 04, 2005
Posts: 9769
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quote:
Originally posted by Aragorn:
we can at least evaluate yours .... are these verses in your quran?


The information that you provided is not enough for me to know what it is. It is too serious to work with so little info. Get me a link to their Qur'an if you could.
André

Location: Rite Hay
Registered:: January 09, 2003
Posts: 17242
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quote:
Originally posted by ksazma:
quote:
Originally posted by André:
Many shiites believe that the Koran is not 100% authentic. Don't even try to deny that Ksaz. There are many articles written on this subject.


See reply to Argy. Let us look at the Qur'an that the Shiites are using. That is the best way to determine if theirs is different from mine.


I know what book they use. I'm just saying that many of them feel that the book is not 100% authentic and that's a fact Jack no matter how you want to twist it or turn it.
dara shikoh
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Location: wherever there is good food
Registered:: February 15, 2007
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Shoot. Thought I'd just peruse before without commenting. Re the qurans: SOME sunnis claim the shiites put in the verses of wilayah. The sunnis cannot prove this.
Some shias say that verses were omitted from the Q due to Sunni chicanery, but have never proved it. Their q's are the same.
WHen a shia says however that his q is different..and insists on it..there is a subtlety involved: the imams can read between the lines, supposedly, and what they say, counts as the 'omitted' verses> we have no historical record of this being put to the test howver.
We cannot listen to what opponents say about ecah other, but what they themselves say. And proof has to be provided. TheQ's are identifical in text, if not in interpretation.
ksazma
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Location: Every action is judged by intention - Muhammad
Registered:: April 04, 2005
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quote:
Originally posted by dara shikoh:
Shoot. Thought I'd just peruse before without commenting. Re the qurans: SOME sunnis claim the shiites put in the verses of wilayah. The sunnis cannot prove this.
Some shias say that verses were omitted from the Q due to Sunni chicanery, but have never proved it. Their q's are the same.
WHen a shia says however that his q is different..and insists on it..there is a subtlety involved: the imams can read between the lines, supposedly, and what they say, counts as the 'omitted' verses> we have no historical record of this being put to the test howver.
We cannot listen to what opponents say about ecah other, but what they themselves say. And proof has to be provided. TheQ's are identifical in text, if not in interpretation.


Mikey and Dre, please take note. Thanks.

And thanks again, Dara.
ksazma
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Location: Every action is judged by intention - Muhammad
Registered:: April 04, 2005
Posts: 9769
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quote:
Originally posted by André:
I know what book they use. I'm just saying that many of them feel that the book is not 100% authentic and that's a fact Jack no matter how you want to twist it or turn it.


Not twisting anything bro. Just evaluating the physical evidence provided.
Pink Panther
Active Member
Location: Aragorn
Registered:: June 23, 2006
Posts: 10474
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quote:
Originally posted by dara shikoh:
Shoot. Thought I'd just peruse before without commenting. Re the qurans: SOME sunnis claim the shiites put in the verses of wilayah. The sunnis cannot prove this.
Some shias say that verses were omitted from the Q due to Sunni chicanery, but have never proved it. Their q's are the same.
WHen a shia says however that his q is different..and insists on it..there is a subtlety involved: the imams can read between the lines, supposedly, and what they say, counts as the 'omitted' verses> we have no historical record of this being put to the test howver.
We cannot listen to what opponents say about ecah other, but what they themselves say. And proof has to be provided. TheQ's are identifical in text, if not in interpretation.


have you read the book .. The Moslem World?
Terry Ishmael
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Location: Homeless in New York, Lil ABC dropout!
Registered:: March 22, 1999
Posts: 23035
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Who wrote it?
A jew? :)
Pink Panther
Active Member
Location: Aragorn
Registered:: June 23, 2006
Posts: 10474
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quote:
Originally posted by Terry Ishmael:
Who wrote it?
A jew? :)


a lot of muslim literature that muslims are using are written by non muslim. We can start by, the quran you are using --- who translate it?
Terry Ishmael
Elite Member
Location: Homeless in New York, Lil ABC dropout!
Registered:: March 22, 1999
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I have 7 different translators, but the Arabic is the same.
Pink Panther
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Location: Aragorn
Registered:: June 23, 2006
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quote:
Originally posted by Terry Ishmael:
I have 7 different translators, but the Arabic is the same.


I didnt ask you that ..lol
ksazma
Member
Location: Every action is judged by intention - Muhammad
Registered:: April 04, 2005
Posts: 9769
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All my translations are by Muslims.
André

Location: Rite Hay
Registered:: January 09, 2003
Posts: 17242
Posted   Hide PostReply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post  
quote:
Originally posted by ksazma:
quote:
Originally posted by dara shikoh:
Shoot. Thought I'd just peruse before without commenting. Re the qurans: SOME sunnis claim the shiites put in the verses of wilayah. The sunnis cannot prove this.
Some shias say that verses were omitted from the Q due to Sunni chicanery, but have never proved it. Their q's are the same.
WHen a shia says however that his q is different..and insists on it..there is a subtlety involved: the imams can read between the lines, supposedly, and what they say, counts as the 'omitted' verses> we have no historical record of this being put to the test howver.
We cannot listen to what opponents say about ecah other, but what they themselves say. And proof has to be provided. TheQ's are identifical in text, if not in interpretation.


Mikey and Dre, please take note. Thanks.

And thanks again, Dara.


I read what he wrote and he does not deny what I said.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: André,
ksazma
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Location: Every action is judged by intention - Muhammad
Registered:: April 04, 2005
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quote:
Originally posted by André:
I read what he wrote and he does not deny what I said.


You are not known for reading only half of a sentense. Whah happened? :)
André

Location: Rite Hay
Registered:: January 09, 2003
Posts: 17242
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quote:
Originally posted by ksazma:
quote:
Originally posted by André:
I read what he wrote and he does not deny what I said.


You are not known for reading only half of a sentense. Whah happened? :)


I never said there is proof one way or another. Re-read what I said you'll see that what Dara wrote agrees with my point of view.
ksazma
Member
Location: Every action is judged by intention - Muhammad
Registered:: April 04, 2005
Posts: 9769
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quote:
Originally posted by André:
I never said there is proof one way or another. Re-read what I said you'll see that what Dara wrote agrees with my point of view.


If there is no proof, why are we fighting over something meaningless. The difference is that I will have no trouble showing variations in the various Bibles. Which is what I first commented on.
Pink Panther
Active Member
Location: Aragorn
Registered:: June 23, 2006
Posts: 10474
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quote:
Originally posted by ksazma:
quote:
Originally posted by André:
I never said there is proof one way or another. Re-read what I said you'll see that what Dara wrote agrees with my point of view.


If there is no proof, why are we fighting over something meaningless. The difference is that I will have no trouble showing variations in the various Bibles. Which is what I first commented on.


you can check up this in your own time .. or you can get Dara to confirm it. Some muslims in Iraq use the Idn Masud version of the quran. Many verses are missing in this quran.
ksazma
Member
Location: Every action is judged by intention - Muhammad
Registered:: April 04, 2005
Posts: 9769
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quote:
Originally posted by Aragorn:
Some muslims in Iraq use the Idn Masud version of the quran. Many verses are missing in this quran.


Ibn Masud did not have a version of the Qur'an. Those were his notes. Like how you keep certain health notes and not others. But you cannot claim that you own the Health encyclopedea.
André

Location: Rite Hay
Registered:: January 09, 2003
Posts: 17242
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quote:
Originally posted by ksazma:
quote:
Originally posted by André:
I never said there is proof one way or another. Re-read what I said you'll see that what Dara wrote agrees with my point of view.


If there is no proof, why are we fighting over something meaningless. The difference is that I will have no trouble showing variations in the various Bibles. Which is what I first commented on.


bhai, you prappuh like fuh run around in circles. I said it before and I'll say it again - Many Shiites believe that the Koran is not authentic and that is beyond any doubt. There's a whole lot of proof to this. Which is what I first commented on. Nothing to do with the Bible.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: André,
ksazma
Member
Location: Every action is judged by intention - Muhammad
Registered:: April 04, 2005
Posts: 9769