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Senior Member Location: wherever there is good food
Registered:: February 15, 2007
Posts: 12231
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Posted
if this has been mentioned before. IMAO, I am good at what i do. I notice that I have made several challenges..none of which has been accepted. kaz has joined me in at least one of these challenges. Instead, the malicious pernicious mendacious claims against islam continues.
Here is an admission: contemporary islam has a lot of crapola from its followers. but so too do other religions. Now Jews, Muslims, and Hindus have a long tradition of the skill of argument. Many hindus on this board don't know those skills since traditionally, hindu scholars left argument to specialists. Christianity is based on faith and could never hold up against Islam and Judaism. for argument's sake, that does not mean I and J are stronger or truer as far as God is concerned. On this board however, I see some really nonsensical charges..if their purpose is to rile muslims, and the christians (and one professed hindu who I now choose to ignore) who make these charges feel closer to God, then those christians need to ask themselves if Jesus would do this (WWJD). Or if they are in fact being personifications of the answer to WWSD I often ignore some posts even though Super M and Kaz, out of the desire to defend, waste time with them. fine. But c'mon guys/gals..if you are going to throw stones, remember that in order to aim properly, you gotta take the logs out of your eyes... I may not post for another few weeks...so crusader/s...perhaps you visit cyber-acre and duplicate Richard's feat with muslim heads. This message has been edited. Last edited by: dara shikoh, |
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Elite Member Location: Homeless in New York, Lil ABC dropout!
Registered:: March 22, 1999
Posts: 24147
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Posted
PJ is not a professed Hindu. The man is born again!:D |
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Senior Member Location: Aragorn
Registered:: June 23, 2006
Posts: 11365
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Posted
you does write non-sense ... every religion is based on faith. Faith and religion cannot be separated - be it Christian, Islam, Hindu, etc. Why wont a Christian/Hindu faith wont hold up against Islam/Judaism? |
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Senior Member Location: wherever there is good food
Registered:: February 15, 2007
Posts: 12231
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Posted
Arg: ALMOST every religion is based on faith. Shinto is not. But that is something else. I did not say faith would not hold..I said the ARGUMENTS would not hold. Judaism, Hinduism, Islam have a history of presentation of argument: the upanishads trained pandits, the talmud trained jews, and the kalam trained muslims. What did the christians have? Nothing in terms of the gospels as those don't train to argue. That in and of itself does not make christianity any less true: it just means the xity does not have the science of argumentation in its repertoire. Examine the arguments: Jews and Muslims ran circles around christian theologians. And they still do. What the christians do is try to steer the argument to what the NT says...which Jews and Muslms point out is contrary to the theology of the mother document (hebrew bible), and based rather on greek and latin tranlations. The Upanishads..pandits did not have to argue with anyone..christians never even attempted to mess with them in terms of hindu philosophy as the pandits would have asked them how they could believe in J as son of G and then deny the hindu avatar concept. the Muslms left them ((pandits) alone, and those who studied with them became impressed to the point where they tried to incorporate hindu beliefs into islam, or merge the two religions, as did Akbar and Dara Shikoh. When Christians did seek to argue, it was on topics that were not interfaith...aquinas for example argued agaisnt Ibn Rushd's concept God's will...which essentially most Christians had accepted... I don't recall saying a christian/hindu faith hold up against islam. But I do say and challenge this: NO christian theologian can argue against a learned Hindu, Jew or Muslim. Faith does not deny argument: faith denies rational enquiry into the base ideas. If what you say is correct, then the word "argumentation" wold not exist in religion..the medieval polemics would not be written... This message has been edited. Last edited by: dara shikoh, |
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Senior Member Location: wherever there is good food
Registered:: February 15, 2007
Posts: 12231
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Posted
Thanks TI. I had suspected this. Which makes it more egregious. A while back the man posted something insinuating about "we" hindus. I try to avoid further interaction with him because while I had hitherto respected his apparent outspokenness, I noted some inability to discuss matters without rancor. As a born again, if he put forth about being a hindu to cause problems, it was evil. That being said, if I err in my summation, my apologies. |
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Senior Member Location: Aragorn
Registered:: June 23, 2006
Posts: 11365
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Posted
Even Shinto is based on faith. You cannot worship God nor perform religious ceremony without having faith or belief. …… and you are just going around in circles with the rest of your argument. Christians ….. (with the s ) do not try to steer clear of the OT. There is no NT without the OT. Your whole argument is flawed or self opinionated. You still didn’t answer the initial question. This message has been edited. Last edited by: Tuco, |
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Senior Member Location: Every action is judged by intention - Muhammad
Registered:: April 04, 2005
Posts: 10270
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Posted
Christians don't defend the Bible as being perfect in the same way that Muslims do for the Qur'an. They will tell you convincingly that it is the word of God but as soon as you start pointing out differences in narrations, they will say that the real deal is Jesus. Discussing the Qur'an and Bible as they stand right now, the Qur'an does not suffer the variation problems that the Bible does.
"Have they considered the Qur'an with care? If it was from other than Allah, you would have found many contradictions in it". |
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Senior Member Location: Aragorn
Registered:: June 23, 2006
Posts: 11365
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Posted
they are contradictions in the quran .... that was debated many times on this forum. |
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Senior Member Location: Every action is judged by intention - Muhammad
Registered:: April 04, 2005
Posts: 10270
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Posted
There are no contradictions in the Qur'an. It is just you guys posting things out of context. That was asserted right here many times before. |
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Senior Member Location: Aragorn
Registered:: June 23, 2006
Posts: 11365
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Posted
it is the same point of view from each religion. |
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Senior Member Location: Every action is judged by intention - Muhammad
Registered:: April 04, 2005
Posts: 10270
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Posted
It is not. Muslims stand by their position that there are no contradictions in the Qur'an. If Muslims were to start believing that the Qur'an had contradictions, they will cease to be Muslims. Christians will continue to be Christians even if they start believing that there are contradictions in the Bible because the Bible is not where they put their stock. Their stocks are on Jesus. Muslims put their stocks on the Qur'an being perfect and relating the values of Allah. |
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Senior Member Location: Aragorn
Registered:: June 23, 2006
Posts: 11365
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Posted
the Christians dont believe that there is contradiction in the bible. |
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Senior Member Location: Every action is judged by intention - Muhammad
Registered:: April 04, 2005
Posts: 10270
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Posted
But if you bring it up and show them those passages, they will still get by as Christians. Muslims can't. If the Qur'an is not perfect, Muslim teachings are baseless. Everything that a Muslim hold dear comes from the Qur'an. Defeat the Qur'an and you would defeat the Muslim. Defeat the Bible and it has no effect on the Christian. |
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Senior Member Location: Aragorn
Registered:: June 23, 2006
Posts: 11365
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Posted
we are going around in circles here .... I am saying that the Christians do not believe that there is contradiction in the bible. Christians believe that is Bible is the word of God. There is nothing to defeat in the Bible. |
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Senior Member Location: Every action is judged by intention - Muhammad
Registered:: April 04, 2005
Posts: 10270
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Posted
We don't talk to the same set of Christians. I speak to many that see the passages that are clearly contradictory but they don't make it a problem. They common response is that it doesn't matter and it does not change what it says or does not say about Jesus. They focus on the parts that deal with Jesus. The rest of it does not concern them much. Well, except the 10 commandments. :) |
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Senior Member Location: Aragorn
Registered:: June 23, 2006
Posts: 11365
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Posted
this thinking exist in many religions ... like talking to the shiites, or shias or Ahmadiyyas or Sufi or Khawarij or Wahhabis etc. |
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Senior Member Location: Every action is judged by intention - Muhammad
Registered:: April 04, 2005
Posts: 10270
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Posted
But none of them think that the Qur'an is not perfect. Muslims beliefs hangs on them believing that the Qur'an is perfect and it is directly from Allah and than is how thay know who Allah is and what He expects from us. That is why we are usually accused of putting our belief on a book. I don't think that it is the same for the Christians. I have seen christians walk on the Bible. I have seen Pastors throw it across the room during sermons to state a point. You would be hard pressed to see a Muslim kick, throw or step on a Qur'an. We kiss it excessively instead. Really we should read it more than we kiss it but hopefully, you get my point. :) |
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Senior Member Location: Aragorn
Registered:: June 23, 2006
Posts: 11365
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Posted
a few christians do not represent all christians...... and the shiites would say other muslims fudge the quran. |
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Senior Member Registered:: July 03, 2003
Posts: 10093
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Posted
You should speak about what you know and not what you think. I couldn't care less about who/what you worship because whether you firmly believe in it or believe in it a little is of no concern to me. I am thus baffled as to why a Christian's faith is of such grave concern to you! I am not here to debate religion - I never/will never do - to each his/her own! I'm just glad that you are happy following your chosen faith! I am a Christian and I believe the Bible 100%! |
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Senior Member Location: Every action is judged by intention - Muhammad
Registered:: April 04, 2005
Posts: 10270
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Posted
I was having a discussion with Aragorn. I can't remember asking you to accept what I was stating here. If you believe that the Bible is 100%, more power to you. I don't and I speak to many Christians who don't. I guess you missed where I stated that I KNOW Christians and NOT that I believe there are Chriatians who don't believe that the Bible is 100% accurate. |
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Senior Member Location: Every action is judged by intention - Muhammad
Registered:: April 04, 2005
Posts: 10270
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Posted
I speak only from what I know. The Shiites use the same Qur'an that I do and they believe that it is 100% from Allah. Nothing added or deleted. |
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Senior Member Location: Aragorn
Registered:: June 23, 2006
Posts: 11365
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Posted
the shiites believe that the quran was fabricated. Please check the shiite belief and argument on this subject. |
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Senior Member Registered:: July 03, 2003
Posts: 10093
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Posted
You were having a d |