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<Jansher>
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General Notes: General Notes: General Notes: This is the spelling as registered at the birth certificate office. On his Son Sonny Birth certificate it states "Nissibtally, his X mark, 304 Sonkar 1873 Occupier of 9Water Street”.

There were three brothers that came from Ajmere(also spelled as "Ajmer) H.B. Gagraj had a name plate in his home with the name "Ajmere House" in honour of the roots of the family. His grandson Raphiq, is in possession of that name plate. H.B went back to the village in search of his family, but was unsuccessful. There are several different stories of where in India the brothers came from. This is the most credible. There is an Ajmere in the state of Rajasthan in India. More research is needed to confirm if this is correct .

Their names were Nissbeth, Gajrag and Manrag. Both of their parents died when they were young men. No one knows exactly how they died. Their father may have been a police constable. We know that their uncle was a Police constable. His family name really should be Ally.

The three brothers went to live with their uncle who was also a police constable. The boys, young teenagers, were given all the chores to do in the home. They were mistreated and were unhappy in the home.
They decided on a plan to escape from their uncle's home. There were caravans that pass the village occasionally. One such occasion they escaped from home and joined the caravan. It is believed that they changed their names to what we know them as because they were afraid of being caught by their uncle, who obviously would have contacts in the police station.

The boys journeyed to Calcutta. We can only imagine what that journey was like for these three teenagers. The villages they passed through, the sights and sounds, the people around them, how they slept at night under the starry skies, and how they stuck together through it all. They could never imagine at that time, huddled together in the dark of the night, how their future would unfold, how they would become wealthy business men, how their descendants in the future, numbering in the hundreds, would eventually, like them, journey to many different lands through out the world to live. How they would become doctors, lawyers, politicians, pioneering new industry, an ambassador to India. They never realized their descendents of the future would, like them, be adventurous, travel and live and die and are buried in major cities throughout the world.

They eventually arrived in Calcutta, a major city, bustling with activity. At night they would sleep on the streets. During the day they would look for work. Live was hard and they were scared, coming from a little village to a big city, not knowing anyone and having to fend for themselves.

Eventually they heard of the riches in the land of British Guiana that awaits those who were willing to go. The three boys must have had some serious discussions, obviously in their Hindi language, before they made up their minds to join others that were taking the journey to a new land.
To be continued.


Nussbitally married Amajan(Maijan) ____________ , daughter of Kaulowah ____________ and Sahewatty ____________ . Amajan(Maijan) ____________ died in Georgetown in Regent st.

General Notes: Her mother came from India. Her name was Shewatty. The Information on Sonny's birth certificate indicates Maijan mother and father as "Shewatty 32 Ariva 1869 and Kaulowah 170 Ariva 1869". Maijan knew to speak hindi very well.she loved to have family around her and always had the grand children sleeping over during the summer break. After her husband, Nussbit Ally died, ant Jessie helped to run the dry goods store. her eldest son Boya, was running the business. they owned a block on water street going back to Mundy street. They had many range houses or logees and used to rent them out . Boya (means brother in hindustani) died at a young age. Apparently he was making plans to study medicine in England . He ran the business. Sonny could not handle the business as well and tenants were giving problems to pay the rent, as a resoult Maijan was having problems paying the mortgage, and she used to be very worried and upset about this. They sold the entire property and bought a property a at Broad st.,by the lapinteer cemetry.
Sonny got married there. eventually they bought a property in Regent street that had a front and back house. sonny's lived with his wife upstairs in front property and had his business(a pharmacy) on the street level. Maijan lived at the back house.This is where she eventually died.
DaFreak
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quote:
Sonny got married there. eventually they bought a property in Regent street that had a front and back house. sonny's lived with his wife upstairs in front property and had his business(a pharmacy) on the street level.


holy crap bhaijan, am curious to read more now...wonderin de intersecting Street whea dis pharmacy been
<Jansher>
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quote:
Originally posted by DaFreak:
quote:
Sonny got married there. eventually they bought a property in Regent street that had a front and back house. sonny's lived with his wife upstairs in front property and had his business(a pharmacy) on the street level.


holy crap bhaijan, am curious to read more now...wonderin de intersecting Street whea dis pharmacy been


Seems like most of us fullahs are related Big Grin and whats so brilliant is the Muslim/Islamic legacy of documenting the past. Keeping records has been part of our tradition. There is a lot on the net. Keep reading yaar
DaFreak
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Gajraj
Oral history states that three brothers Nisbat, Gajraj and Manraj came onboard the same boat from India to work as Indentured laborers in British Guiana.

There is no documentation to support this, but these were not their given names.

"To begin with they were from the city of Allahabad, of which I think was located in the province of what is now Uttar Pradesh. [Allahabad is a city in the Indian state of Uttar Pradesh. The name, meaning "City of Allah", was given to the city by the Mughal Emperor Akbar in 1583. In Indian alphabets it is spelt "Ilahabad": "ilah" is Arabic for "God", and "-abad" is Persian for "place of".]

Khoda Baksh, was the eldest Brother who took the name of Nisbat in Calcutta.
Karim Baksh, was the second brother who took the name of Gajraj and Rahim Baksh was the last brother who took the name of Manraj.

Their father had died, leaving them to his brother (who was a Captain in the Indian Army) as guardian.
As fate would have it, the uncle's wife (chachee) did not relish the idea that she had the burden of taking care of these 3 boys, and so whenever they played any pranks, she would complain to her husband, the uncle(chacha), who being an army man, would give the corporal punishment. As such he was a very strict disciplinarian.

As time went by, the punishment got overbearing and when they were about in their late teens decided to escape and went to Calcutta, there they found these agents who were recruiting workers for British Guiana, and so they seized the opportunity and enlisted at Calcutta. The name change was done so that their Uncle could never track them down.

On arriving in British Guiana, My Grandfather - Manraj was bound for Plantation Mons Repos, East Coast Demerara, as told by my Mother, where he spent his 5 years of indentureship. I do not know if the other brothers were bound there too, but I do know that after their indentureship they lived closely together in Georgetown, where they all went into business on Water Street around the Bentic street area.

By now, my mother's Grandmother (Naanee) who also came from India, was apparently bound for Plantation Lusignan, she was married I believe, in Guyana and had 3 daughters, whose names were as follows:-
The Eldest was named Manturan
The second was named Imaaman and
The third was named Jaanki.
The brothers decided to get married before their indentureship was up. And so it was that:
Nisbat, the eldest brother, got married to Imaaman the 2nd sister. Manraj, the youngest brother, got married to Manturan the eldest sister. Gajraj, the second brother, married someone else, and Jaanki the 3rd sister, got married to Najeer and remained living in Lusignan near her Mother.

My Mother's grandmother was a Hindu, but it would seem that her husband was a Muslim, as all her sons-in-law were Muslims. I do not know anything about my Mother's Grandfather (Naana), as to whether he went back to India or died in Guyana. My knowledge is only that the old lady had these 3 daughters, who lived in Lusignan and had a shop over the line going on the road to the estate, where M.H. Najeer took it over after she died."
Demerara_Guy
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quote:
Sonny could not handle the business as well and tenants were giving problems to pay the rent, as a resoult Maijan was having problems paying the mortgage, and she used to be very worried and upset about this. They sold the entire property and bought a property a at Broad st.,by the lapinteer cemetry.

From recent discussions, I gathered that this property at Broad and Charles Streer, opposite Dolphin Government School, still exist.
Demerara_Guy
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quote:
Sonny got married there. eventually they bought a property in Regent street that had a front and back house. sonny's lived with his wife upstairs in front property and had his business(a pharmacy) on the street level.
quote:
Originally posted by DaFreak:

holy crap bhaijan, am curious to read more now...wonderin de intersecting Street whea dis pharmacy been

Cuzo Freaky, this could be one of three locations.

1. Regent Street just one block east of Bourda Market on ths side of the cemetary, or

2. On Regent Street and High Street corner, or

3. On Regent Street closer to King Street.

Those are the places that I know where that family had and possible still has properties.
DaFreak
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a got excited cause my relatives had a pharm at de corner of Regent and Cummings Sts. It's no longer there...
Demerara_Guy
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quote:
Originally posted by DaFreak:
a got excited cause my relatives had a pharm at de corner of Regent and Cummings Sts. It's no longer there...

This one is close to the one I described as No.1 in my last post.

The one you are referring is oblequely opposit the one I mentioned.

I vaguely rememberd the one in question which caught your interest.
dara shikoh
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jansher:
General Notes: General Notes: General Notes: This is the spelling as registered at the birth certificate office. On his Son Sonny Birth certificate it states "Nissibtally, his X mark, 304 Sonkar 1873 Occupier of 9Water Street”.

There were three brothers that came from Ajmere(also spelled as "Ajmer) H.B. Gagraj had a name plate in his home with the name "Ajmere House" in honour of the roots of the family. His grandson Raphiq, is in possession of that name plate. H.B went back to the village in search of his family, but was unsuccessful. There are several different stories of where in India the brothers came from. This is the most credible. There is an Ajmere in the state of Rajasthan in India. More research is needed to confirm if this is correct .

Their names were Nissbeth, Gajrag and Manrag.

Jansher: my mom is from the Manraj clan. Rumor has it..and I cant verify this..that they were given those names because they were involved in the indian mutiny and assumed hindu names afterwards...considering that my grandad was a policeman....and a high ranking one at that..and since the brits did NOT give out such positions easily...one wonders...
dara shikoh
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Jansher bhai: u need to get in contact with my cousin, Hafeez manraj. If you visit TO, you should talk to my mom or my aunty Zally...she married into the Misir family from Enmore...they Misirs are brahmins..
<Jansher>
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quote:
Originally posted by dara shikoh:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jansher:
General Notes: General Notes: General Notes: This is the spelling as registered at the birth certificate office. On his Son Sonny Birth certificate it states "Nissibtally, his X mark, 304 Sonkar 1873 Occupier of 9Water Street”.

There were three brothers that came from Ajmere(also spelled as "Ajmer) H.B. Gagraj had a name plate in his home with the name "Ajmere House" in honour of the roots of the family. His grandson Raphiq, is in possession of that name plate. H.B went back to the village in search of his family, but was unsuccessful. There are several different stories of where in India the brothers came from. This is the most credible. There is an Ajmere in the state of Rajasthan in India. More research is needed to confirm if this is correct .

Their names were Nissbeth, Gajrag and Manrag.

Jansher: my mom is from the Manraj clan. Rumor has it..and I cant verify this..that they were given those names because they were involved in the indian mutiny and assumed hindu names afterwards...considering that my grandad was a policeman....and a high ranking one at that..and since the brits did NOT give out such positions easily...one wonders...



Indentureship has been over generalized and there are thousands of stories to explore. There are some unique stories to be told.
<Jansher>
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The gajrajs were hard core fullahs. By the way i wrote about the 1857 uprisings and the afghan british wars and some fullahs were expelled to the colonies; as well many excaped persecutions. A number of the khans were made an uprsing in berbice were sent to the island of wakheenam.
<BK>
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Jansher,
Two weeks ago marked the 150th Anniversary of the "MEERUT" uprising also known as the Sepoy Mutiny as well as the first war for independence.


http://guyanafriends.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/860604972/m/50210415041
<BK>
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Extract of something that I receive from Dr. Odeen Ishmael. Thanks Dr. O for sharing this bit of history of your ancestors.

********

... Interestingly, my great, great, great grandfather (i.e. my grandfather's grandfather on my mother's side) was one of those soldiers involved in the first Indian war of independence in 1857. I recall my grandfather's uncle telling us stories of him way back in the late 1950s when I was about 7 or 8 years old. My ancestor from India, according to what I was told, was sentenced to death but this was commuted to life imprisonment. But in 1858 he and a few others were "deported" by the British authorities to one of the West Berbice sugar estates in British Guiana. He was in his early 30s and had a wife and three children in India, but was forced to leave them behind. In British Guiana he remarried and raised a new family. We don't know his correct name. His last name was Khan and his "call name" was "Phaije".
<Jansher>
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quote:
Originally posted by BK:
Extract of something that I receive from Dr. Odeen Ishmael. Thanks Dr. O for sharing this bit of history of your ancestors.

********

... Interestingly, my great, great, great grandfather (i.e. my grandfather's grandfather on my mother's side) was one of those soldiers involved in the first Indian war of independence in 1857. I recall my grandfather's uncle telling us stories of him way back in the late 1950s when I was about 7 or 8 years old. My ancestor from India, according to what I was told, was sentenced to death but this was commuted to life imprisonment. But in 1858 he and a few others were "deported" by the British authorities to one of the West Berbice sugar estates in British Guiana. He was in his early 30s and had a wife and three children in India, but was forced to leave them behind. In British Guiana he remarried and raised a new family. We don't know his correct name. His last name was Khan and his "call name" was "Phaije".


When i wrote on these subject people laughed at me and you very well remember the attacks. Phaije or Bhaije.. out of respect they called him brother. The ambassador's history of his ancestory makes more sense as we unearth the little stories that made news. Share with him the Story of JUmman and Phultun.
<Jansher>
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quote:
Originally posted by BK:
Jansher,
Two weeks ago marked the 150th Anniversary of the "MEERUT" uprising also known as the Sepoy Mutiny as well as the first war for independence.


http://guyanafriends.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/860604972/m/50210415041


Very much so and the Muslims lead led the pack.
<Jansher>
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I am still investigating the history behind the migration of my great great grandfather Jehangir Khan who was sent to PLN Philadelphia where it is alleged that the first majid was built. I recalled a relative name OMar Khan from this verg/philadelphia came to see us in the 70s.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: <Jansher>,
<Reds>
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quote:
Originally posted by dara shikoh:
Jansher bhai: u need to get in contact with my cousin, Hafeez manraj. If you visit TO, you should talk to my mom or my aunty Zally...she married into the Misir family from Enmore...they Misirs are brahmins..


Very interesting. If we are speaking of the same MISIRs then we are related as well, since Misir are from my moms side.
<BK>
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quote:
Originally posted by Jansher:
When i wrote on these subject people laughed at me and you very well remember the attacks. Phaije or Bhaije.. out of respect they called him brother. The ambassador's history of his ancestory makes more sense as we unearth the little stories that made news. Share with him the Story of JUmman and Phultun.


I am aware of the attacks, and you very well know that there will always be people like that especially those who don't know their history. I am sure that Dr. Ishmael is aware that the Muslims (Jummun and Pultun) were the first to rebel under the harsh treatment of the Indian indentured servants.
<BK>
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quote:
Originally posted by Jansher:
I am still investing the history behind the migration of my great great grandfather Jehangir Khan who was sent to PLN Philadelphia where it is alleged that the first majid was built. I recalled a relative name OMar Khan from this verg/philadelphia came to see us in the 70s.


I am sure that when you research further you will find that he was probably one of the "architects" of the masjid.
<BK>
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quote:
Originally posted by Reds:
Very interesting. If we are speaking of the same MISIRs then we are related as well, since Misir are from my moms side.


holy shit! very interesting indeed
<Reds>
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quote:
Originally posted by BK:
quote:
Originally posted by Reds:
Very interesting. If we are speaking of the same MISIRs then we are related as well, since Misir are from my moms side.


holy shit! very interesting indeed


you know them too BK?
<BK>
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Reds, I prefer not to get into any further details on these folks. wavey.gif
<Reds>
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quote:
Originally posted by BK:
Reds, I prefer not to get into any further details on these folks. wavey.gif


alright cool....this is a huge ass family...when wedding time is around...well let me not get into that Big GrinBig Grin
dara shikoh
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quote:
Originally posted by Reds:
quote:
Originally posted by dara shikoh:
Jansher bhai: u need to get in contact with my cousin, Hafeez manraj. If you visit TO, you should talk to my mom or my aunty Zally...she married into the Misir family from Enmore...they Misirs are brahmins..


Very interesting. If we are speaking of the same MISIRs then we are related as well, since Misir are from my moms side.


Since I assume that they were the only family in Enmore...hmmm..If your mom knows Uncle Harry then....one brother was a pandit in campbellville...
<Reds>
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quote:
Originally posted by dara shikoh:
quote:
Originally posted by Reds:
quote:
Originally posted by dara shikoh:
Jansher bhai: u need to get in contact with my cousin, Hafeez manraj. If you visit TO, you should talk to my mom or my aunty Zally...she married into the Misir family from Enmore...they Misirs are brahmins..


Very interesting. If we are speaking of the same MISIRs then we are related as well, since Misir are from my moms side.


Since I assume that they were the only family in Enmore...hmmm..If your mom knows Uncle Harry then....one brother was a pandit in campbellville...


i dont know about that...i know one of the daughters are living here in toronto...aunty something..cant remember her name right now but i will have to call my cousins to verify.
kidmost
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quote:
Originally posted by Jansher:
The gajrajs were hard core fullahs. By the way i wrote about the 1857 uprisings and the afghan british wars and some fullahs were expelled to the colonies; as well many excaped persecutions. A number of the khans were made an uprsing in berbice were sent to the island of wakheenam.


am told the afghan military opposition against the brits comprised of a unified moslem/sikh groups. It seems back in the earlier days afghans comprised of moslems and sikhs , they often inter-married , which united tribes and clans .My great great aja was married to an iranian afghan woman named Ahilya , they were horse breeders like my great great aja and his son Burkhan also married a moslem , it seems back then the moslem and sikhs lived in real harmony in afghanistan .
dara shikoh
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quote:
Originally posted by kidmost:
quote:
Originally posted by Jansher:
The gajrajs were hard core fullahs. By the way i wrote about the 1857 uprisings and the afghan british wars and some fullahs were expelled to the colonies; as well many excaped persecutions. A number of the khans were made an uprsing in berbice were sent to the island of wakheenam.


Kidmost: check carefully if they were sikhs. Because the name "singh" does not necc. specify that. It seems problematic because althogh the brits liked the sikhs, they sikhs had a bad history with the muslims..from the fifth guru owward..from Akbhar's time..they had killed the gurus. It was because of the Muslims that the sikhs started the khalsa...

am told the afghan military opposition against the brits comprised of a unified moslem/sikh groups. It seems back in the earlier days afghans comprised of moslems and sikhs , they often inter-married , which united tribes and clans .My great great aja was married to an iranian afghan woman named Ahilya , they were horse breeders like my great great aja and his son Burkhan also married a moslem , it seems back then the moslem and sikhs lived in real harmony in afghanistan .
kidmost
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sikhs / punjabs of afghan region were more turkic and mongolian in nature and not as Indian as many assume.

Khalsa , or the sikh baptismal/initiation of warriors , began long before the the moghul Aurangzeb demanded sikhs covert or be put to death. It latter became that exclusive group of saint warriors ( like the Knights Templar) when Aurangzeb demanded sikhs convert or be put to death . When the Mughal empire was defeated by the sikhs and punjab region became sikh ruled by various leaders , Khalsa then became a democratic body which had the power to unseat sikh kings and leaders . IT was like a federation .

The punjab region which included Pakistan once embraced afghanistan which saw a large convergence of peopled from the east , west , north and south , these people were nomads trading and breeding animals and they made their own treaties and agreements but it was only in the southern regions of the punjab that the mughals reigned supreme until they were defeated by Khalsa . The afghan regions remained unconquered for centuries even after the sepoy mutiny the region was ungovernable and unmanageable and it remains so unto this day .
<Jansher>
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quote:
Originally posted by kidmost:
quote:
Originally posted by Jansher:
The gajrajs were hard core fullahs. By the way i wrote about the 1857 uprisings and the afghan british wars and some fullahs were expelled to the colonies; as well many excaped persecutions. A number of the khans were made an uprsing in berbice were sent to the island of wakheenam.


am told the afghan military opposition against the brits comprised of a unified moslem/sikh groups. It seems back in the earlier days afghans comprised of moslems and sikhs , they often inter-married , which united tribes and clans .My great great aja was married to an iranian afghan woman named Ahilya , they were horse breeders like my great great aja and his son Burkhan also married a moslem , it seems back then the moslem and sikhs lived in real harmony in afghanistan .


Kid thanks for that additional info. the Sikhs were very involved at frontline with the afghans against the brits.
dara shikoh
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